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GTM xx traffic data info/Clear Channel vs Navteq 4/27/2009

With the unit powered on, connected to the GTM xx receiver and receiving traffic:

1. Go to the map screen
2. Touch the "speed" display to go to the Trip Computer screen
3. Touch and hold the large round speedometer gauge for approx 6-7 seconds
4. Touch the "next" button to advance to the "GTM Info" page.

The left-hand column under "FM Table" displays the available stations/channels that are broadcasting traffic data and that are seen by the GTM xx. The list displayed is of stations/channels your unit is able to select from. Here's an example of what you'll see (will vary according to your area, traffic provider & subscription):

TTN-LAX3 103.5 6/6 $

Description of above (AFAIK):
TTN = Total Traffic Network, Navteq = Navteq
LAX3 = Region name (the numerical value will change)
103.5 = Station/channel frequency
6 = Station/channel ID (6: TTN, 7: Navteq, 12: unknown)
6 = Location
$ = Identified/verified/locked stations/channels usable by GTM xx

You can also see what station/channel is currently being used for traffic data on the previous "GTM Status" page in the right-hand column under which will look like:

Channel: 152(102.7)

This will change according to which station/channel is selected from the FM Table list on the "GTM Info" page. At bootup, the FM Table is scanned and (I believe) the most powerful station/channel is selected by the system to provide the traffic data. I also believe (but have not verified) that the system is able to switch to a different station/channel automatically when the signal goes below a certain level and/or another stronger station/channel is available in the FM Table. The FM Table is also re-scanned periodically (you'll see the FM Table being refreshed) but I'm unsure of the exact frequency.

If you have two traffic subscriptions on your GTM xx as I do (original Navteq Lifetime subscription unit with additional Clear Channel Lifetime subscription) the system will decide which subscription is used for traffic data and is NOT selectable by the user in any way that I know of. The first & strongest signal will be the deciding factor on which is used. However, if the stronger stations/channels consistently belong to one provider, the system will purge the FM Table of the weaker stations/channels. For example with my GTM 20, Clear Channel is dominant in my area...I seldom, if ever, now see any Navteq stations/channels in my FM Table where I used to see them quite frequently. And yes, both subscriptions are indeed valid, usable and seen by the system.
----

Additional info: Clear Channel/TTN vs Navteq traffic (Los Angeles area)

In the Los Angeles/Riverside, CA area, I get the following stations transmitting traffic data:

Clear Channel Lifetime (Los Angeles)
92.3 94.1 98.7 99.1 102.7 103.5 104.3 105.3 (8 stations)

Clear Channel Lifetime (San Bernardino/Riverside)
92.3 94.1 98.7 99.1 99.9 102.7 103.5 104.3 105.3 (9 stations)

Navteq Lifetime ad-based (Los Angeles)
91.9 94.9 97.3 100.3 105.9 (5 stations)

Navteq Lifetime ad-based (San Bernardino/Riverside)
100.3 (1 station)

You can see that Clear Channel is the clear winner as far as transmitting stations are concerned, at least in my area and I find that it's well worth adding the Clear Channel lifetime subscription in addition to the GTM 20's Navteq subscription just for the additional and wider coverage.

If you'll be using a Navteq only GTM 20 with a 760, you may in fact need to purchase the Clear Channel lifetime subscription to add to the GTM 20 since the 760 has no means to display the ads that the Navteq subscription relies on. I am not sure of this because I am running an old firmware version (v3.20) on my 760. When I used it with my Navteq only GTM 20 (before adding a Clear Channel lifetime subscription), traffic data was very sporadic, incomplete and definitely not working correctly. After adding the Clear Channel lifetime subscription, traffic was verified working correctly. Newer firmware versions (4.xx) for the 760 may have fixed this but I really do not know. Maybe a 760 user with firmware v4.xx with access to a Navteq only GTM 20 can comment on this.

You may get wider coverage using Clear Channel but this will depend on your particular area (Clear Channel is -much- better in my area).

Clear Channel Traffic coverage map:
http://www.totaltraffic.com/CoverageAreas/

Navteq Traffic coverage map:
http://www.navteq.com/rdstraffic/

----

Additional info regarding multiple subscriptions on one GTM 20 (4/8/2009)

You can purchase a Clear Channel lifetime subscription and apply it to a Navteq only GTM 20. I have done just that on the GTM 20 that came with my 765T. Two subscriptions are on the unit, Clear Channel & Navteq.

You can also purchase a Navteq only GTM 20 direct from Garmin and add a Clear Channel subscription to that. Yes, this really is a Navteq GTM 20; read the fine print and note the price compared to the Clear Channel GTM 20.

Navteq GTM 20 - $119.99 https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=36249
Clear Channel GTM 20 - $214.27 https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=403

You can also purchase a Navteq subscription and apply it to a Clear Channel GTM 20. That does not make much sense though unless coverage for your area is better using Navteq. The system is auto-sensing (with no option to the user as to which subscription/provider will be used) and will choose the provider with the strongest overall signal if you have multiple subscriptions.

See https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=268 for available traffic subscriptions.

Comments

  • mmsstar 96 Points
    Neat! SergZak
    But I found something not to do when in that mode. I noticed a lot of other things as I scrolled through the options. One of them was a question asking if I wanted to upgrade Bluetooth? Seemed like a good idea so I did and of course the bluetooth promtly stopped working. I wound up having to call Garmin to get it unscrambled. Seems I had "upgraded" to an older version of the BT software!

    BTW I called Garmin Tuesday at about noon and was on hold for only about 10 min!
  • I just saw this post! (don't know how I missed it!) and I couldn't agree more.

    I had Clear Channel (free!) with my Navigon 8100T and I never missed a beat. Even accidents that happened minutes before would show up! Very accurate and very current!

    Flip side- I used the included Navteq traffic for the last 2 days and got locked up in b2b traffic twice, and it only said "slight delay" at the most (one time it said "all clear?!?).

    For those of you who depend on accurate traffic info to plan your day (I'm in sales) I'd say the Clear Channel subscription is a must!

    Just my ~$.02! :wink:
  • Marc 301 Points
    I've heard that this varies a lot by region. Is this near Chapel Hill that you are seeing this clear superiority of Clear Channel versus Navteq, Thunkder? I will say with my limited experience around Boston Navteq is hit or miss. I have no experience with Clear Channel. I believe there is already info on this area from Tim.
  • I've heard that this varies a lot by region. Is this near Chapel Hill that you are seeing this clear superiority of Clear Channel versus Navteq, Thunkder? I will say with my limited experience around Boston Navteq is hit or miss. I have no experience with Clear Channel. I believe there is already info on this area from Tim.
    My experience area is all over the Carolinas, Georgia, and Virginia. Nothing against the Navteq folks, but the Clear Channel is almost always more current and more accurate. To me, just given the number of radio frequencies that carry the info for Clear Channel vs. Navteq, I would expect this.

    Since I've purchased the Clear Channel, I haven't been stuck yet, and I've even searched traffic and given accurate data to others I've been speaking with as much as 50 miles away! It was pretty impressive.
  • I added Clear Channel to my 765T where there is the lifetime NAVTEQ. So far, the unit is still locked in using the NAVTEQ. Hopefully it will at some point use Clear Channel so I can see if there is a difference (I'm in Orange County, CA area).
  • SergZak 340 Points
    Hopefully it will at some point use Clear Channel so I can see if there is a difference (I'm in Orange County, CA area).
    It may take some time to rescan/rebuild the FM table...but you can force this as well:

    From the "GTM Info" page, press the "Reset" button on the bottom-right of the screen. This will purge the FM table and rescan for new stations.

    Another thing to do is after the FM table purge/rescan and the unit has sat for awhile, unplug the traffic receiver from 12v lighter socket for a few minutes, then plug it back in.
  • Thanks Serg,

    I did the reset and it came up with 2 NAVTEQ and 1 Clear Channel. I'll try and remove the power plug and see if that makes a difference. I'll see what happens on the way home tonight and on a trip to Lake Arrowhead tomorrow. I expect the 91, 15 and 10 should have traffic!
  • SergZak 340 Points
    No problem, Sandy...

    If you let the unit sit for a while, it does actually continue to rescan for better/stronger stations. You might want to leave it plugged in for maybe overnight or so (you can turn the GPS off as the traffic receiver will continue to scan). Note that rescanning the FM table clears it so it will have to rebuild it again from scratch.

    Maybe the OC has more limited Clear Channel stations (don't know why that would be as they are FM). As you drive around, it will pick up new stations and add those to the FM table but only up to a certain point though...I have no idea how many stations the FM table can hold.

    I'll bet that eventually, you will get Clear Channel dominance...just give it some time.

    Also, don't expect it to be vastly superior...even though I get Clear Channel loud and clear here in Balwin Park/Whittier, there is still old traffic data, unreported traffic data, etc...it the nature of the current system & technology.
  • Anyone know how accurate clear channel is in Chicago? I've got lifetime navteq, and its so so. It wont steer you around 10 minute delays, but if its really backed up, then it'll re-route you. So.. if its bad enough for NAVTEQ to know about it, it must be a bad accident...
  • No problem, Sandy...


    I'll bet that eventually, you will get Clear Channel dominance...just give it some time.
    Thanks Serg,

    The Clear Channel appears to be dominant now, and worked very well the past 2 weekends, driving to and from Riverside and this past weekend to Joshua Tree National Park. Alerts were accuaret and mostly well in advance.

    Sandy
  • I think I might be confused about something. I own a 765T (which obviously comes with the free lifetime NAVTEQ traffic GTM-20.)

    I just purchased the Clear Channel TTN subscription via the Garmin website. I activated it using the instructions, and the unit now has both traffic networks listed. I then purged the list of FM stations the unit had already built up so that it could start fresh.

    Why would I still be getting ads? I'm totally frustrated, as 1/2 the reason I bought this was so I could have my unit advertisement-free.

    Didn't I read multiple times that if you purchase one of the lifetime subscriptions, that the ads would then be eradicated?

    Pardon my ignorance,
    Jeff
  • Try checking the traffic subscriptions (Traffic Icon in Settings) and see if Total Traffic Network (Clear Channel) is listed and checked. If not, you may need to try the activation sequence again.

    Good luck! :)
  • Yeah, I checked, and it is indeed listed under settings > traffic. Both subscriptions are: the NAVTEQ one and the Clear Channel one, which was what prompted my post.

    As a side note, I had assumed that I wouldn't need to do a hard reset on the unit, given the fact that the traffic subscriptions are in the power supply rather than the unit itself. All I did in that regard was reset the list of collected stations.
  • I didn't have to do a hard reset when I installed mine. Sounds like you did everything you were supposed to.

    Believe it or not, tech support has been quite helpful when I'm stumped. Just be sure to call them at off hours (not work start-up, lunch, or 5:00) and the wait is not too bad. Believe it or not, they've been pretty sharp! Worth a try! :shock:
  • sandyp 0 Points
    I don't think that you can turn NAVTEQ off and just run the Clear Channel. They're both activted.
  • sandyp, are you saying that the only time the ads will NOT appear is if the unit is actively using the traffic from the Total Traffic Network (as opposed to the ads being disabled inherently via the paid subscription?) So in other words, if I happen to be driving through an area where the NAVTEQ signal is stronger than the Clear Channel, I'll still see the ads?

    If that truly is the case, I will be amazingly disappointed.
  • SergZak 340 Points
    Yes, the system is auto-sensing and will select the provider with the strongest signal.

    Jeff, I believe that once you have a paid-for subscription on the GTM unit such as Clear Channel/Total Traffic (even if you still have Navteq free on the unit), the unit will stop displaying ads...even if the system does revert to using Navteq free traffic. In my experience, I have never seen ads displayed after purchasing my Clear Channel subscriptions.
  • I'd just like to update everyone on my experience with this.

    I called Garmin Support today to ask them about this issue. For the record, buying a Clear Channel subscription when you have a free lifetime NAVTEQ subscription which came built-in to a GTM-20 (ie- any GTM-20 which came with one of the units with 'T' in the model number) *WILL NOT* get rid of the ads.

    When I asked about why people have been reporting otherwise, they told me that the only way that could occur is if the Clear Channel service is the one which is being used due to a stronger signal. So SergZak, it looks like the reason you've never gotten the ads to pop up again is simply because your unit has only been accessing Clear Channel since.

    So my aforementioned scenario is actually correct; when the unit is accessing the NAVTEQ-based free traffic, even with a purchased Clear Channel subscription, the ads will still appear. It just so happens that in my area of Denver, the NAVTEQ feed seems to be the stronger signal.

    The solution? The only way to TRULY get rid of the ads with the free NAVTEQ subscription is to add the PAID NAVTEQ subscription instead. Luckily, Garmin Support was very helpful, and they supplied me with a paid NAVTEQ code to add to my account due to the misinformation.

    Now, lo and behold, the ads are gone. Thanks for the help, folks!

    -Jeff
  • kenp 92 Points
    So the ads don't stop. Good - that means there's nothing wrong with my upgrade. :)

    Installed the Clear Channel upgrade in my 255WT, GTM25 yesterday morning. I cleared the channel table. By the time I pulled out of my driveway, I was receiving three CC stations and one NT. And I had one ad. A little spooky, since a) I thought they'd stop, and b) it was for Legal Seafood, and my wife and I had planned on going there last night. (Didn't think to get the coupon code - foo!)

    By the time I got to work, the station list showed nine CC and no NT. Same thing after my drive home. So it looks like CC is dominant in my neighborhood, Northern Virginia. And the one NT channel I got in the morning was automatically purged while the unit was operating.

    No real stories about performance. I commute after the heart of rush hour, and traffic was light yesterday. The real smoke test will be Monday, when I drive up to New York.

    Ken
  • SergZak 340 Points
    @ kenp

    You may be getting cached (on the unit) traffic ads. Try deleting the cached ads and report back if this helps. You should not be getting ads if Clear Channel is the subscription that is being used. If you delete the ads from the unit but continue to receive them, it's a good indication that the Navteq subscription is being used.

    See:
    http://forums.gpsreview.net/discussion/comment/111458/#111458
  • sandyp 0 Points
    Now that CC is dominant, I haven't received an ad in weeks!
  • kenp 92 Points
    Yep - that got rid of it. Also the icon to see offers. :)

    I think that ad (which was Red Lobster, not Legal Seafood...memory is the second thing to go) snuck in on the one Navteq channel that connected before CC took over. It's only the second ad I ever received, and this one was disappointing because there was no offer.

    With CC's dominance, I should never see another ad.

    Speaking of Clear Channel...is anyone here besides me old enough to remember what "clear channel" meant before the radio monopoly took over the name?

    Ken
  • Stryker412 0 Points
    edited February 2010
    Deleted.
  • kenp, are you referring to the outdoor advertising company?
  • kenp 92 Points
    kenp, are you referring to the outdoor advertising company?
    No. "Clear channel" refers to AM stations that are allowed to operate at 50,000 watts after dark, when AM can propagate a long way. They get exclusive use of their frequency then. In the days before CDs and tapes (let alone satellite radio) they were great on long overnight drives - no looking for another station every half hour. And people in rural areas could listen to big city radio in the evening.

    Ken
  • Ken, that was my other guess. Here is the Clear Channel about which you speak:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear-channel_station

    ...and here is the one to which I was referring:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_Channel_Outdoor

    Interesting reading nevertheless!
  • kenp 92 Points
    Wow - didn't know about the billboard thing. Kind of scary, since that's owned by the radio people. Put that together with my Clear Channel traffic experience (see my overlong TTN vs Navteq post) where traffic reports were in synch with what I was seeing in real time. They know where we're going, and they control communication to us. Next thing we'll learn is that CC's CEO is George Orwell.

    Ken
  • :D
    I just bought a new nuvi 265 with traffic, refurbished, $112. Got Navteq traffic for for the center of NYC, but lost it going home to southern Connecticut.

    I just paid for clearchannel and popped it in and went down the street, and voila! The traffic I need.

    I'm lovin' this.

    My Mom had gotten all the "kids" a nuvi 2 christmasses ago, and when I went to update the map, they wanted $70. Are you kidding me? $70 for a download?

    So I decided to research the traffic options with a new garmin and found this little gem for just a bit more, and I got the 2011 map.

    Works like a charm, except it wants me to take every exit I pass and take local roads. Honestly, It's set for fastest route....

    But that's OK. I've long since learned to map myself on google before a trip and force the damned thing to go MY way, knowing how pesky certain roads are in the NYC burbs. I've learned to mute the voice until the last few turns.

    FYI to those buying the Clearchannel subscription: You have to be in the car, with the entire thing connected and the engine running for power to make the activation code take. I tried it in front of my puter and it didn't take it.
  • nutcase 91 Points
    TTN-LAX3 103.5 6/6 $

    Description of above (AFAIK):
    TTN = Total Traffic Network, Navteq = Navteq
    LAX3 = Region name (the numerical value will change)
    103.5 = Station/channel frequency
    6 = Station/channel ID (6: TTN, 7: Navteq, 12: unknown)
    6 = Location
    $ = Identified/verified/locked stations/channels usable by GTM xx
    In my area (San Francisco Bay region), all of the stations show up as "Not Named" (instead of "TTN-___").

    Also, the three provider identifiers are 5, 7, and 128. I'm guessing that 5 is ClearChannel/TTN. Could 128 be for MSNDirect? -- Does anyone know where to find a list of radio stations allied with MSNDirect?

    I can see seven Navteq, four TTN, and one "other" station.
  • TTN-LAX3 103.5 6/6 $

    Description of above (AFAIK):
    TTN = Total Traffic Network, Navteq = Navteq
    LAX3 = Region name (the numerical value will change)
    103.5 = Station/channel frequency
    6 = Station/channel ID (6: TTN, 7: Navteq, 12: unknown)
    6 = Location
    $ = Identified/verified/locked stations/channels usable by GTM xx

    In my area (San Francisco Bay region), all of the stations show up as "Not Named" (instead of "TTN-___").

    Also, the three provider identifiers are 5, 7, and 128. I'm guessing that 5 is ClearChannel/TTN. Could 128 be for MSNDirect? -- Does anyone know where to find a list of radio stations allied with MSNDirect?

    I can see seven Navteq, four TTN, and one "other" station.
    Hi Nutcase~ (funny handle!)

    MSN Direct is a totally different broadcast and requires a completely different receiver (antenna/power cord), so I wouldn't think it was MSN. I would just suspect its an error in the broadcast id code for that station (or for how your unit is decoding it). It's my understanding that you can have either Traffic service, or MSN, but not both functioning at the same time since you have to change antennas (charging cables).
  • cperk 0 Points
    This morning while travelling I-95 in CT I was comparing my new 1690 to my 765T. I have both Navteq and Clear Channel on the 765, while the 1690 uses the Navteq Live traffic. Now the claim is the 1690 is supposed to have the most accurate and up to date traffic info right? Well it doesn't. The 765T warned me of a serious 36 minute delay, while the 1690 showed a green icon.
    After sitting in traffic for 15 minutes, the 1690 finally showed a moderate delay of 7 minutes. After 25 minutes, the icon tuned red and showed a 24 minute delay, which by the way matched the delay time showing on the 765T. All in all the delay was about 40 minutes, showing that Clear Channel had the more accurate delay.
    Now if I was in a hurry, which I wasn't and the reason I decided to test both units, the 765T would have routed me around the delay.
    One of the main reasons I bought the 1690 was for the fact that the traffic would be accurate which obviously it's not. I only wish I had the option of adding Clear Channel to the 1690, which you can't since traffic cables are incompatible with the 1690.
    So if you have to choose a traffic provider for the CT area, buy the subscription for Clear Channel. You'll get the most accurate trafiic, and NO DARN ADS!
  • Hi, new here. I just sent this to Garmin but thought I would send it here as well. Does the supscription to CC go to the GPS or the power cord with the FM reciever? In my case I have the GPS with two cords for two vehicles. With the quick mount on the 3790 I didn't want to have to remove the mount and cables when switching vehicles so I bought a second set which wasn't cheap.

    Here is my email to Garmin

    I have a pretty new 3790T that I move between two vehicles frequently. I purchased a second mount and lifetime trafic power cord for the second vehicle (not cheap). The problem is the lifetime traffic in my area (Canyon Country, CA) more often than not is unable to recieve the NAVTEC traffic updates. It looks like the Clear Channel Premium traffic is able to cover the area better but I am not 100% sure until I try it. Now if I buy the premium service for my GPS will it tie in with my GPS or with the power cords? At double the price it would not be worth it if I can't get it in both vehicles. I'm sure this isn't a usual request but I hope I can get a definate answer.
  • t923347 426 Points
    It is my understanding the the traffic subscription is attached to the traffic receiver (cable) and not to a specific GPS.
  • Thank you, that is what I was afraid of.
  • for sharing your knowledge here. While I have used gps receivers since Garmin's gps III was current, I have only recently tried traffic reporting. I have a lot to learn!
    DaveL
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