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Why does the Nuvi keep trying to take me on back roads?

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  • Try this address for start:L 1155 12th Ave N, Williams Lake , B.C.

    Destination:Where to>Points of Interest>Entertainment>Bar/Nightclub>scroll to Laughing Loon 4.6km SE


    Yes that's troubling if the speed limits are off that bad, Highway 97 is at 60km hr for most fo the way with small parts faster, and Broadway ave is 50km max and full of stops every few hundred meters. A note to Navteq is pending.
    My Nuvi 760 in simulation mode drives Broadway at 83km/hr, but travels on hwy 97 at 76km/hr. My driving habits influencing it a bit I'm sure but this verifies why the routing glitch.

    Thanks for the help, Garmin is off the hook on this one, looks like Navteq needs the cure. :)
  • Marc 301 Points
    In general when I found strange routes where it takes you off the highway in this discssion I too have found that the speed on the side roads are overly optimistic. Furthermore, when I had a Magellan 1340 it would produce the same route, implying the problem was with the Navteq information, and not the routing engine.
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    Thanks DC Nuvi. Checking on a Navigon, we'll have to blame this one on Navteq as Nutcase discovered. A Navigon 7200 picked the same route.
  • rbirk 0 Points
    All I know is that my 765T keeps taking me on routes with the most red lights possible. At least that how it feels.

    Not sure if Garmin only looks at the speed limits on roads when calculating routes? This as lots of red lights will drastically lower the average speed. Just yesterday my Garmin took me on a route it estimated to take 30min and it took me 50min, because of all the red lights. And this in the middle of the day with average traffic.

    Other routing software (google etc), don't seem to have this problem.

    Then, of course, we have the phenomenon that when you taking another route than the suggested route by Garmin, it happily re-calculates and finds out that your option is faster :)

    Cannot say I'm very impressed by the garmin calculations...
  • Tim 1482 Points
    Then, of course, we have the phenomenon that when you taking another route than the suggested route by Garmin, it happily re-calculates and finds out that your option is faster :)
    If you can provide a starting address (A) and destination address (B) that the Nuvi creates a particular route and then you add in a waypoint (C) produces a faster route-- that is something I would like to see more examples of.
  • aslg 0 Points
    Then, of course, we have the phenomenon that when you taking another route than the suggested route by Garmin, it happily re-calculates and finds out that your option is faster :)

    If you can provide a starting address (A) and destination address (B) that the Nuvi creates a particular route and then you add in a waypoint (C) produces a faster route-- that is something I would like to see more examples of.
    I do not think this is specific to certain routes. It happens in the following scenario:
    1- You drive on a route calculated by your garmin
    2- The route is much slower than initially projected by garmin
    3- Garmin adjusts the ETA taking in account that you are driving slower than initially projected
    4- You know the area and you know that a better alternative exists
    5- You start driving toward that alternative. Now the funny part starts...
    6- Garmin recalculates the route and insists you should go back to the initial route. ETA increases
    7- You do not follow the recommendation.
    8- Garmin recalculates the route and continues insisting you should go back to the initial route. ETA increases even more. This could go on and on for several times
    9- You finally arrive to a point where Garmin eventually gets it. The new route is faster than the initial one. I witnessed drops of 45 mins in the Austin-Corpus Christi route

    There is definitely something buggy in the "recalculate route" process.
    Garmin give you a route and an ETA at a certain recalculation and 5 mins later, at the next recalculation, it tells you the new route you decided to take is 45 mins faster than the previous one???

    Somehow garmin uses the old route as a base line for the recalculation of the new one (probably to make the recalculation process faster: you are driving and you need it fast!).

    A bad case of bad route affection :)
  • Tim 1482 Points
    :roll:
  • First, I can't believe this issue is still being discussed. I was one of the early posters with my tale of woe. I had contacted Garmin with no response some time ago. I'm leaving for a long trip in two days so I surfed around trying to see if this issue had been resolved. Obviously it hasn't.

    Today, I spoke at length with Dimitri at Garmin who said there was nothing "official" in the records. He left me on hold for a few minutes to talk with some folks and said that yes they had been fielding calls on the the problem but no solution had been found. He took my name and email address and asked for the URL for this thread. He told me he was personally going to pass his notes from our conversation to the technical enginers and ask them to review the comments on this site. I asked him to let me know, even if there was no solution.

    If you are experiencing this problem I suggest you call Garmin Tech Support and describe the details and circumstances.

    While I give credit to the customer support effort, the bottom line for me is that I'll be printing out google maps tonight.
  • Good job!

    Keep us posted,

    bob


    First, I can't believe this issue is still being discussed. I was one of the early posters with my tale of woe. I had contacted Garmin with no response some time ago. I'm leaving for a long trip in two days so I surfed around trying to see if this issue had been resolved. Obviously it hasn't.

    Today, I spoke at length with Dimitri at Garmin who said there was nothing "official" in the records. He left me on hold for a few minutes to talk with some folks and said that yes they had been fielding calls on the the problem but no solution had been found. He took my name and email address and asked for the URL for this thread. He told me he was personally going to pass his notes from our conversation to the technical enginers and ask them to review the comments on this site. I asked him to let me know, even if there was no solution.

    If you are experiencing this problem I suggest you call Garmin Tech Support and describe the details and circumstances.

    While I give credit to the customer support effort, the bottom line for me is that I'll be printing out google maps tonight.
  • Marc 301 Points
    Ok, here is one to try. Route from 302 N. Main St, Middleton, MA (Dunkin Donuts) to the City of Hyannis, MA. The route will take you down route 1 into Boston onto 93 South. It is possible to get from 1S directly to 93 S, but my Nuvi 755T in simulation mode takes me off route 1 onto New Rutheford Ave in Charlestown across a bridge into Boston and onto Washington St. and then onto 93 S. This is with map 2010.30 and avoidances set to no u turn and no dirt roads. I don't see this route selection anywhere else, such as google or mapquest.
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    My 760, same map, will take US1 to Broadway and onto 93.

    97 miles and 1:47 drive time.
  • Marc 301 Points
    edited December 2009
    Broadway in what city? I don't think there is a Broadway in Boston. BTW my route says 93 miles and 1:41 for time.

    Edit- ahh I see the problem Gator- you have to understand in New England streets change names at least once every 5 miles and often have multiple names. Broadway is route 1, only nobody calls it Broadway. So are you saying it take you directly from Broadway, which is route 1 if you look at a map directly onto 93 S. with no intervening streets? If so we have different devices with identical maps apparently giving us different routes.
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    You started in Middleton, correct? Or better yet, is Middleton the same as Middleton Twn?
  • Marc 301 Points
    Yes Middleton is Middleton Twn. another N.E. oddity.
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    Broadway in what city? I don't think there is a Broadway in Boston. BTW my route says 93 miles and 1:41 for time.

    Edit- ahh I see the problem Gator- you have to understand in New England streets change names at least once every 5 miles and often have multiple names. Broadway is route 1, only nobody calls it that. So are you saying it take you directly from Broadway, which is route 1 if you look at a map directly onto 93 S. with no intervening streets? If so we have different devices with identical maps apparently giving us different routes.
    Yes then, directly onto 93 from US1. 2010.3 maps, fastest, only avoid is dirt roads. Your 765 thinks it found a shorter and faster route tho. If you add a via to force you directly from US1 to 93, what do you get for miles and time? Keep in mind that drive time will vary between users, so it's not really comparable, but I'm still curious.
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    Marc, if I recalculate for "shortest" I do get a similar route to 93 in Boston to what you're seeing. Total mileage 91 and drive time for me jumps to 2:11
  • Marc 301 Points
    So the way that gets me off at New Rutheford Ave. is 92.8 miles. The route directly from route 1 to 93 S. is 93.2 miles. If you look at the map in that area, it is hard to believe they would make a four mile difference, coming to 97 as yours suggested. The only other interesting point is the New Rutheford exit also has 93 S in paraentheses. I believe during construction a few years ago it may have been the alternate route 93 while that section of interstate was closed. Maybe that's the problem. However, I still don't understand why it thinks that is the faster route.
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    Marc, I should have said 93 miles and 1:47 for fastest. Sorry! Thanks for catching that.

    I wish I had held on to my 255 a couple days longer so I could punch this one in. I gave it back to the "borrower" yesterday. Boyd, one of the other moderators here, has a 205. Let me see if I can get him to try that route.
  • With 760, 4.9, 2010.3, with avoidances unpaved roads, and unpaved roads/u-turns, I get a good route much the same as gatorguy. I put in shortest distance and it became an epic disaster. No luck here.
  • Marc 301 Points
    So I did this on my wifes 265, which has the 2010.20 map and it does go directly onto 93 S from route 1 also. Why is the 755 (at least mine anyway), it picks the stranger route is something I think I'll ask Garmin.
  • Go to Tools > Settings > Navigation > Avoidances > Enable

    You should only have a check by the ones you "do not" want.

    All of mine were checked and I was having real bad navigation problems.

    I had Highways checked so it would not put me on the Highway it kept taking me to different routes and telling me to get off at every exit while I was on the Highway.

    This should solve a lot of your problems.

    Also make sure you have the most up to date software.

    Hope this helps.

    Tammy
  • Marc 301 Points
    If only it were that simple Tammy. I have unchecked all the avoidances, so that it says avoidances disabled and still received some bad routes. Yes there is plenty of "pilot error" in these complaints, but there are also some valid concerns with the routing algorithms. This one is particularly interesting because it means that there is a difference in routing algorithms among the various Nuvis.
  • Mine is a 265WT if this helps so I would think that the 200 series would be the same or similar.
    If my fix helps some I will be happy.
    I waited 30 minutes to talk to a tech and it was worth it for me, it fixed my problem.
    It is frustrating when you pay so much for something and it does not even have a good manual or troubleshooting section in the manual or at their site.

    Good luck everyone.
  • Tim 1482 Points
    This one is particularly interesting because it means that there is a difference in routing algorithms among the various Nuvis.
    So do we now have a starting address/ending address that results in a different route on different models despite having the same map version and both devices running the latest firmware?

    If so then I might suggest a hard rest on both devices (backup favorites, etc) a re-confirmation of avoidances and route preference settings-- and then by george I think we might have a result!
  • alanb 555 Points
    FWIW, I am getting the same (incorrect) route on my 755T with 2010.30 that marc is getting. So I doubt if the hard reset will change anything on the 755T.
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    Marc, does your wife's 265 have EcoRoute?
  • Marc 301 Points
    Yes, I believe she got ecoroute with one of the updates , not the we use it.
    Also , have already tried a reset and shutting off all avoidances and there is no difference in the resulting route.



    And here is my wonderfully non helpful response from Garmin tech support:
    Dear Marc xxxxx,

    Thank you for contacting Garmin International. I would be happy to help you with this. There is not a problem with the unit. You will find that there are no preplanned routes in the unit. The unit learns driving habits over time. It takes that information combined with the current location and destination to build a route. You can hold two 755's and they will both route differently as they will have different information to go off of. The unit will try to build a route the best that it knows how. Remember as long as the unit guides you to the destination then it has performed its job. For areas that you know where to go you should go ahead and head that direction as the unit will learn that driving habit (highways vs side roads). I hope this helps.




    With Best Regards,

    Edward G

    Product Support Specialist

    2nd Shift Automotive Team

    Garmin International

    913-397-8200

    800-800-1020

    913-440-8280 (fax) Att: Edward G, Associate #5816

    www.garmin.com




    Original Message Follows: ------------------------

    Form Message
    Knowledge Job Ticket: {11a7fba0-dfe5-11de-6566-000000000000}
    Knowledge Session Log URL: undefined?session={11a7fba0-dfe5-11de-6566-000000000000}&forward=sesslog
    KnowledgeBase: garmin
    Subject: Routing Problem
    Message Body: I recently put the following route into my GPS: From: 302 Main St. , Middleton Twn. , MA To: Hyannis, MA. I turned off all avoidances and chose fastest route. Part of the route is from Broadway to Route I-93S in Boston. There is a direct connection from Broadway to I-93S. A friend who as a Nuvi 760 with the same current map (2010.30) correctly maps him that way. My 755T has me get off Broadway on New Rutheford Ave then takes me to Washington St. and then to 93-S. This drags me through part of downtown Boston with multiple lights and is certainly much slower, even if slightly shorter than the direct route. Since another Nuvi chose the correct wrote, I am wondering if there is some problem in the routing algorithm in the 755 series? Thank you for your help.
    MarketName: On the Road
    ProductGroup: nuvi 700 series
    Product: nuvi 755T
    Type: General Unit Operation
    SoftwareVersion: 3.6 Map 2010.30


    Haven't we already confirmed from Garmin that learning speeds does not change routes? I am not ready to get in a pissing match with incompetent tech support. I am doing that right now with IT at my job. My firewall is complaining that I am getting UDP attacks on the Netbios port of my laptop. I determined it is from within the building where I work. ITs response is that they are not responsible for problems with my firewall. ARRGH!
  • Marc 301 Points
    Marc, if I recalculate for "shortest" I do get a similar route to 93 in Boston to what you're seeing. Total mileage 91 and drive time for me jumps to 2:11
    If I select shortest route- I get a very different route that turns off Main St in Middleton onto Boston St. and winds it way around finally to Broadway (Route 1). The travel times for quickest is 1:37, for shortest is 1:56. As far as distance it is 91 miles instead of 93. That about ends my contribution to this discussion. If someone knows a way to relay some of this information to someone at Garmin that can give a more intelligent response than I got above I would appreciate it.

    Thanks,
    Marc
  • Am new to a 255W (I love my 305 for my bike) and new to the forum. Rather than start another topic on routing issues, I'll just add to this one. I drive a 20 route for work daily, the 255 is set to shortest, avoidance, that's it. It always wants to take me on a minor highway that is 5-10 minutes longer than the interstate just down the road. Even weirder, when I take that route the route I know is shorter, I have 1 turn on another highway that takes me directly to the street where I work. But when I make that trun on the other highway, the Nuvi has me bypass the actual road where I work (and what is named in my search) and takes me to another highway that eventually takes me to my work road. It almost likes me to take a circle to get to my starting point, it adds miles to my route.

    What has me disappointed is I travel to other cities for work and I think my Nuvi might have been a waste of money. I have a Blackberry with Verizon service) and I used to use their navigator. While not perfect, it certainly took me to and from work the best way. I may use the Nuvi as a paper weight and go back to VZ Navigator as I'm not feel confident in trusting the Nuvi to get me where I want to go the quickest route.

    Bob

    PS - I did upgrade to their latest firmware the other day.
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    I drive a 20 route for work daily, the 255 is set to shortest, avoidance, that's it. It always wants to take me on a minor highway that is 5-10 minutes longer than the interstate just down the road.
    There's the problem, you have your nuvi set for "Shortest". That's the least number of miles to get to your destination, not the fastest way to get there. Try using "Fastest" and you're more likely to get the routes you're looking for.
  • Boyd 1998 Points
    Remember as long as the unit guides you to the destination then it has performed its job.
    Sums this whole thread up very nicely I think. :wink:
  • Marc 301 Points
    edited December 2009
    Yes Boyd, but some perform their job better than others. It's usually the ones that perform better that people want to buy. That was a non answer from a tech who obviously does not want to bother investigating further. If every Nuvi line but the 7X5 gives a more efficient route, doesn't it make sense for Garmin to take a look at the 7x5 routing algorithm?
  • I drive a 20 route for work daily, the 255 is set to shortest, avoidance, that's it. It always wants to take me on a minor highway that is 5-10 minutes longer than the interstate just down the road.


    There's the problem,
    you have your nuvi set for "Shortest". That's the least number of miles to get to your destination, not the fastest way to get there. Try using "Fastest" and you're more likely to get the routes you're looking for.
    Sorry - just checked, I was sent to Faster Time, with Avoidances set to U-turns & Traffic. Sorry about the mistake.

    I'll try next week to turn off Traffic Avoidance. There is construction (new overpass) on the interstate, that's been going on for a year now. Maybe it thinks it is slowing down traffic. It hasn't 1 iota and in fact the minor highway it wants to take me on has the same construction (new perpendicular road being built). Plus the minor highway has 6 stop lights on it, the interstate of course has nada.
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    FWIW, I don't avoid u-turns. I'd rather turn around than be given another route that may take me miles out of my way.
  • Boyd 1998 Points
    Sorry, I should never have attempted to interject a little humor into this discussion...
  • Marc 301 Points
    edited December 2009


    Look at the traffic map and see if that area is marked as a slow down. You can easily tell then if that is being taken into account or not.
  • Marc 301 Points
    Sorry, I should never have attempted to interject a little humor into this discussion...
    Sorry, just inordinately annoyed with incompetent techs over the past few days whose main objective is to close cases as fast as possible, both in this case or at work with our computer network. When you put a lot of effort into identifying the problem for them and then get blown off like that it tends to make it hard to keep ones sense of humor.
  • Sorry, I should never have attempted to interject a little humor into this discussion...


    Sorry, just inordinately annoyed with incompetent techs over the past few days whose main objective is to close cases as fast as possible, both in this case or at work with our computer network. When you put a lot of effort into identifying the problem for them and then get blown off like that it tends to make it hard to keep ones sense of humor.
    Humor = goodness

  • Look at the traffic map and see if that area is marked as a slow down. You can easily tell then if that is being taken into account or not.
    Hmmm, the 255w has a map, but it doesn't show traffic. Unless I'm wrong (could very well be, I never looked at the manual) I think traffic is an additional add-on, correct?
  • Marc 301 Points
    If you have a 255 and no traffic adapter power cord your GPS cannot sense traffic so it certainly wouldn't be avoiding a road because of it. I guess I am not understanding what you are saying. If you mean that in general it thinks that that road is slow, force a simulation that takes it and look at the speed as the simulator passes over that section.
  • If you have a 255 and no traffic adapter power cord your GPS cannot sense traffic so it certainly wouldn't be avoiding a road because of it. I guess I am not understanding what you are saying. If you mean that in general it thinks that that road is slow, force a simulation that takes it and look at the speed as the simulator passes over that section.
    Sorry Marc - I should do some more research as I don't know what a traffic adapter power cord is. I have power cords, I don't know what they have to do with traffic. From the 255W website, I see there is a separate subscription service ($49.99) for "Premium Traffic Subscription. I thought that in order for the map to show traffic, you'd need that subscription.
  • Boyd 1998 Points
    There's a special power cord which contains the traffic receiver. Depends on which kind of traffic service you want. The "free" traffic puts little ads on your screen and it's included with the receiver. But, obviously, without a receiver you won't get any traffic reports.
  • Marc 301 Points
    The traffic adapter power cord is a cord with a big rectangular wart on it that is actually an FM receiver. Even with a subscription, if you don't have a receiver to get the traffic info, you aren't going to get any information. The receiver is not built into the 255 models. I thought you meant that the 255 was getting information about traffic delays through such a receiver. Probably that is incorrect. The other alternative is that you believe that road information within the Nuvi has marked the section of road you are talking about as having a slow rate of travel on it. You can see how fast the Nuvi thinks people travel on a certain section of road by creating a route where that section of road must be used and then turning on the simulator and watch the speed as the simulation passes along that particular section. I hope this clears up what I meant.
  • The traffic adapter power cord is a cord with a big rectangular wart on it that is actually an FM receiver. Even with a subscription, if you don't have a receiver to get the traffic info, you aren't going to get any information. The receiver is not built into the 255 models. I thought you meant that the 255 was getting information about traffic delays through such a receiver. Probably that is incorrect. The other alternative is that you believe that road information within the Nuvi has marked the section of road you are talking about as having a slow rate of travel on it. You can see how fast the Nuvi thinks people travel on a certain section of road by creating a route where that section of road must be used and then turning on the simulator and watch the speed as the simulation passes along that particular section. I hope this clears up what I meant.
    Marc - gotcha! Thanks for the clarification, that makes sense. So because my Nuvi is not traffic enabled, then the route it suggests isn't being effected by traffic. However what is an avoidance and how does Garmin know about it? Would it be something like a bridge is out of commission or a major road project is underway?
  • Marc 301 Points
    If there is a traffic avoidance check box checked and you don't have traffic information going to your Nuvi it probably, and hopefully does nothing. (In other words checking or unchecking the box should have no effect without a receiver.)
  • I am a new member to this site.My name is Paul O I live in Staten Island New york. I own a Nuvi 350 with with the 2009 maps(no map up dates).
    I recently purchased a Nuvi 1490T that has been upgraded with the latest firmware and 2010.30 maps. Both nuvis are set in navigation to Fastest,Enabled- Traffic and Unpaved roads. Going from point A: 210 Tanglewood Drive Staten Island NY to Point B: my local airport,Newark Liberty International.The 350 with the original 2009 maps take me thru local streets to the Gothels Bridge and Directly onto the New Jersey TPK(I-95) to the next exit 13A into the airport in about 15 minutes in moderate traffic.
    The 1490T with the 2010.30 maps take me thru local streets over the Gothels Bridge and off the TPK.and routes me directly to local streets to get to the Airport.With moderate traffic and red lights it adds another 20 to 25 minutes to the trip.
    Example #2 Coming from Brooklyn (87th street and 3rd ave.) the 350 takes me over the Verizano bridge on to I 278E(The Staten Island expressway)to exit 11 which is about 5 exits once I get over the VZ bridge.Total time to my home about 15 to 20 minutes door to door.
    The 1490 with the 2010.30 maps take me over the bridge but route me off the first exit !4 to local streets to my home,with moderate traffic and red lights and additional 20 to 25 minutes.
    I spoke to about 4 different technical reps. at Garmin and they confirmed with their computers and Nuvis that they had the exact routes that I had once they changed their settings to the same settings that I had. There is something very wrong with the way the new maps compute the routes. I also filled out the map errors form on the garmin site. Can anyone help me.


  • I sure hope Garmin can!

    Has anyone determined when the Garmins lost their marbles? All Nuvis? xx5Nuvis?


    bob
  • Marc 301 Points
    There is something very wrong with the way the new maps compute the routes. I also filled out the map errors form on the garmin site. Can anyone help me.
    Maps don't compute routes, the routing algorithm within the GPS does. We now know that different Nuvi models compute routes differently(read some of the preceding posts in this thread) However it still is not clear how much of these routing problems are because of poor map data and how much because there is something wrong in the routing algorithms. Only Garmin can definitively answer that question and solve the problem.
  • Tim 1482 Points
    Marc & gatorguy - Since we now have a route that is computed differently on two different devices, what I'd be most curious to see is this... With that single starting address (A) and ending address (B) what is the estimated time to finish the route on each device with and without a via point to force the route the other device picks by default. (And we'd need to do a hard reset to clear out the "adjusted" ETAs.) Assuming both devices are running the latest firmware and the same map version. That would give a result we can potentially gain some insight from.
  • Thank you for you insight,but the point is with the 350 garmin having the 2009 original maps routing is spot on.When using the 2010 maps routing is way off.With both units using the same settings,changes not for the better had to happen when the mapping changed.
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