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60csx no longer uses SiRF chips

Anyone else hear about this?

http://www.mediatek.com/en/news/info.php?sn=15
Garmin Selects MediaTek GPS Chipsets for Outdoor Navigation Devices

Hsin-Chu, Taiwan --May 25, 2009-- MediaTek, Inc., the leading fabless semiconductor company for wireless communications and digital multimedia solutions, today announced MT3329, its advanced single-chip all-in-one GPS solution. This product in mass production has also been integrated by a wide range of Garmin outdoor navigators, the Garmin GPSMAP 60 series.
In another forum a user asked Garmin support about this and posted their response which said they could neither confirm nor deny it...
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Comments

  • Tim 1465 Points
    I saw that a few weeks back, but forgot about it. It is certainly a good possibility and as you know Garmin has done that before.
  • Boyd 1795 Points
    Will be interesting to see if users notice any difference. In the past the SiRF chipset has been cited as a reason to choose the 60csx over other models.
  • tomj03 0 Points
    I don't mind if they use MTK, but I do if they substitute with their own Bravo. :evil:
  • Boyd 1795 Points
    The switch to the MTK chipset has been confirmed by users on another site. Evidently the only way to tell if your new 60csx has the MTK chipset is by checking the software version in the menus. Units with the MTK chips will show a GPS Software Version of 2.00m. Units with the SiRFStar chipset should show GPS Software version 3.00 or possibly 3.00s.

    There is nothing on the unit itself or the packaging to indicate the MTK chipset.
  • cuc tu 91 Points
    MTK were better, right?
  • cuc tu 91 Points
    I just read the following sensitivity stats:

    SiRfStarIII 90nm: -158 dBm
    SiRfStarIII 65nm: -158 dBm (lower power consuming)
    MTK: -159 dBm
    MTKII: -165 dBm

    These are all very good numbers, but now the question is if the Oregon, particulary the newest 550 uses the MTKII chip?

    dBm is a unit of power with 0 dBm = 1 milliwatt.

    -127.5 is the typical received signal power from a GPS satellite (probably the most powerful one).

    A small piece of wire sitting on a table is said to emit -174 dBm of RF energy just from the movement of electrons.
  • Boyd 1795 Points
    The Oregon series uses the STM Cartesio chipset, or at least it has so far (according to multiple articles). Scott Dresser just posted a "first impressions" article on the Oregon 550 at gpsfix.net and says
    I’ve taken the unit apart and I can confirm that it is using the ST Cartesio chipset like the Oregon x00 series
  • The switch to the MTK chipset has been confirmed by users on another site. Evidently the only way to tell if your new 60csx has the MTK chipset is by checking the software version in the menus. Units with the MTK chips will show a GPS Software Version of 2.00m. Units with the SiRFStar chipset should show GPS Software version 3.00 or possibly 3.00s.

    There is nothing on the unit itself or the packaging to indicate the MTK chipset.

    I just bought a 60csx today at a local Best Buy, and checking it, it has Software Ver. 3.70, and GPS SW Ver. 3.00, so from what I read here, it has the SiRFStar III chipset.

    So is this good?

    Reading, I see people saying that the SiRFStar III chipset is the best. Is this still the case?

    Thx

    UPDATE: I just updated my 60csx to the very latest Firmware. It nows shows the Software Ver. to be 4.00, and the GPS SW Ver., 3.00s.

    .
  • Units with the SiRFStar chipset should show GPS Software version 3.00 or possibly 3.00s.
    3.00s here for my 60CSx GPS software version. This is a relatively new GPS purchased around April of this year. No idea when it was actually made, though. Sure am glad I snatched one of the SiRF units before they're all gone! 8)

  • UPDATE: I just updated my 60csx to the very latest Firmware. It nows shows the Software Ver. to be 4.00, and the GPS SW Ver., 3.00s.
    Same here.
  • Units with the SiRFStar chipset should show GPS Software version 3.00 or possibly 3.00s.


    3.00s here for my 60CSx GPS software version. This is a relatively new GPS purchased around April of this year. No idea when it was actually made, though. Sure am glad I snatched one of the SiRF units before they're all gone! 8)
    Just curious, but what is the S/N on yours? Everything but the last two (2) digits would be fine.

    Mine is 1184286xx

    Thx

    .

  • Just curious, but what is the S/N on yours? Everything but the last two (2) digits would be fine.

    Mine is 1184286xx

    Thx

    .
    Sure, no problemo... It's 1185143XX...a bit newer than yours. It would be interesting if we could find out the dates of manufacture from the serial numbers.

  • Just curious, but what is the S/N on yours? Everything but the last two (2) digits would be fine.

    Mine is 1184286xx

    Thx

    .


    Sure, no problemo... It's 1185143XX...a bit newer than yours. It would be interesting if we could find out the dates of manufacture from the serial numbers.
    Thanks.

    It looks like they made a lot of these. Some 85,7xx units between yours and mine alone. Hopefully they made no hardware changes in between.

    At least mine wasn't one of the first anyway, being number 428,6xx off the line. I wonder at what S/N they changed the chip set?

    .
  • How do you guys know that Garmin would not just leave that little "s" on the firmware to throw you saps off the track?
  • How do you guys know that Garmin would not just leave that little "s" on the firmware to throw you saps off the track?
    Because there's the SiRF copyright info on the start-up screen?
  • Boyd 1795 Points
    Somewhere I've read that the SiRF copyright appeared on the box of non-SiRF 60csx's. I also recall reading that it appeared on Nuvi splash screens of models with other chipsets.

    In reality, I'm not sure how you can know FOR SURE what's inside your GPS unless you physically take it apart and look at the chips.
  • My box has the SiRF legalese on the bottom. My GPS performs wonderfully in the accuracy and sensitivity department. I'll believe it has the SiRF chipset. 8)
  • oleozz 0 Points
    My 60 CSX has the gps software version 2.5. I contacted a Garmin product support specialist and he claimed that my 60 has the Sirfstar chipset. :o
    Accuracy seems decent most of the time, it usually is tracking 8 satellites and tells me that I am about 14 ft plus or minus. Overhead canopy knocks me down to about 20 feet.
  • lys 0 Points
    I thought the vista hcx which has the mtk chip was always considered pretty much on par with the 60csx... i don't understand what all the fuss is about :roll:
  • oleozz 0 Points
    I asked about the chip set when I was talking to the Garmin support person about the Garmin Astro. I wanted to make sure the Astro was as accurate as the 60, he told me that they use their own chip set in the Astro, but accuracy was the same. The Astros are expensive so was just trying to do a little homework.
  • My 60CSX reads as follows:

    "Software Version 3.90"

    and

    "GPS SW Version 2.00m"

    So, which chipset do I have in my unit?

    (Unit ID 36041601xx)

    Thanks for any assistance,

    Stovebolt
  • Boyd 1795 Points
    See above:
    Units with the MTK chips will show a GPS Software Version of 2.00m.
    How do you like your 60csx? Have you had any problems?
  • There are four of us that geocaches on a regular basis. Three of us have older 60csx's wit the sirf star chips. The fourth is a newer unit with the MTK chipset. I was unaware of the change until I read the forums a while back. I checked her unit and it did indeed have the MTK chipset. The only conclusion I can make is that it seems just as accurate for geocaching as the other 60csx. She's always right there when the find is made.
  • Hi Boyd,

    I like the 60CSX, as it is a great improvement over my GarminV. I have had only one issue with it, on a dual-sport ride in Nevada in October. (Brief RR posted here

    http://www.spotadventures.com/user/profile?user_id=47618)

    It was the same issue described by one poster in this forum, who stated that he experienced the "Track Up" going haywire and having the display just switch all of a sudden to "North UP." I noticed this while moving at 0-10 mph though, and although it gave me a temporary conundrum, actually causing me to nav in reverse to take a different route of a "safer" nature (we couldn't afford to run out of gas, time or daylight at that point) I did reflect later on that I may have a setting turned on/off or set in such a way as to have "caused" my experience. But I still don't quite buy into this. There is a setting in ORIENTATION to select "below" a specified altitude, and that is where I'm guessing - but I have it set at "120mi." In my mind this means a Zoom view level above the map, and I know I was zooming in and out during my nav problem, but that's the only thing I can think of - besides the batteries wiggin. I did change the batts later - approx 3 more running hours on the unit, and didn't experience the problem since. So I wrote it off to low batts. (I do not run lithiums as per owner's manual suggestion concerning startup voltage spikes, just running duracell alkaline.)

    Stovebolt
    **********************
    See above:
    Units with the MTK chips will show a GPS Software Version of 2.00m.
    How do you like your 60csx? Have you had any problems?
  • Hi,

    Is there any review of the two versions?

    Thx
  • cuc tu 91 Points
    They are really close in performance and any variation is more likely caused by other external factors.

    I believe that, on paper, the MTK chip is a higher performing product in that it is more sensitive, faster to acquire first lock, and uses less power.
  • zee 97 Points
    I got a 60Cx about six weeks ago, version 4.10-2.20m. It is more stable than my old SiRF 60Cx, and 60CSx, especially in the battery save mode. Not as flighty or bouncy as the SiRF is. Slightly more accurate, perhaps. The WAAS d's hung on longer with the MTK, when I brought them inside my mobile home, from a tracks test outside in the snowy curved driveway. I'll give a slight edge to the SiRF on the tracking, but not much. I set the units to yards, then the track setup to distance, and the Interval to 0.01 yards. I slipped off of the icy winding pathway back to the front door, and it noted it. Usually I set the tracks to timing, with 1 second for more detailed tracks. The SiRF on the box has been replaced by the words High-sensivity GPS receiver. When connected to the external antennas on the roof, and the units set up in the User Grid mode, to measure the grid distance from the SW corner of this 10 acres, in feet, they show no change in feet when in the WAAS or no WAAS mode. Same as my GPS 60, the most accurate of my 60's. Gotta love that "ole yallar". Now for all of that snow to melt, so I can get both units on my home made pole/tripod
    setup, and do some serious compaison. Sure has been a doozy of a winter!
  • After fiddling around with my 60CSX, it appears that my trouble must have been with low-powered batteries - I haven't had any trouble since the time I reported in my post above. I've been working on producing aftermarket cradles for the 60-series to use in conjunction with RAM mounts over this winter, after having made a run of one-offs and sending 4 down to Baja on dirt bikes last year. My new cradles are improved by a good margin, and will sell well enough for my "kitchen table" efforts, I think (hope.) Anyway, I'll post up when I have a few more made, and can supply pics to anybody interested in an alternative to the RAM cradles, which leave something to be desired. The RAM mounts, on the other hand, is a wheel that does not need to be reinvented. They are great just the way they are.

    Anyway, I appreciate all the information on this forum, so thank you.

    Stovebolt
    Team Ruptured Buzzard
    "Never Give Up"
  • I'm trying to find one 60csx with the new chipset to buy, but all sellers I contacted say the chipset is sirf3.
    And I can´t get a answer from garmin
  • Boyd 1795 Points
    From the user reports I read here and elsewhere, most of the 60csx's in the pipeline now have the new MTK chips. I gather that the boxes they come in may still say SiRF however.

    I see posts from others who are actually looking for the SiRF based units, so you could probably sell if you end up getting one. The only way to know for sure is to start it up and see what firmware you're running.

    But honestly, it probably doesn't make much difference one way or the other.
  • The MediaTek is more sensitive, but because of that, has some multipath problems.
    I have a Holux M-1000c with MTK MT3329, is great getting a fix and under trees, but near buildings has serious problems.
    A review of the two versions would be great.
  • How does the difference between the chips translate to the end user in a real world environment?
  • Tim 1465 Points
    Most users will never know the difference.
  • cuc tu 91 Points
    For the users that DO notice the difference, what are they MOST likely to notice?
  • zee 97 Points
    The biggest things that I have noticed, so far, is that the MTK is more stable than the SiRF, not as "jumpy". When set up to measure in feet, in the User Grid, it dosn't change as much, or as far, when it does change the position location. When in the Batter Saver Mode, it is a little jumpy at first, then settles dodw. The SiRF chip is like a rabbit on a dual spring pogo stick in the Battery Save Mode. MTK handles WAAS different from any of my other units. Like tonight, after 22 hours of being on, and connected to the external antenna on the roof, it didn't want to reconnect to WAAS 51, afterI put in fresh batteries. It wants to start looking for 33 again, like when I first took it out of the box. Usually after acouple of off and ons, it connects to 51 ok, the closest WAAS to me, here in Utah. After about 2.5 minutes, the 51 bar goes solid, and the +- location goes from 9 ft to 7 ft, always. Sometimes the grid feet don't change at all, like on all of my other Garmin 60 s, but a couple of times ther will be a couple of feet change when the WAAS is activated. Most of my testing is from the antennas on the roof, due to this years heavy snowfall. Most of the snow blows off of the roof, but as of tonight ther is about 8 in of new snow on the roof, and snowing. I look forwarw to getting my "an=teek" body outside for some waypoint comparison when I don't have to fight 3 feet of snow here above 6500 ft in the southern half of Utah. All of my measured points are covered up. As Tim said, most people wouldn't notice much.
  • gatorguy 224 Points
    Somewhat related, an article on chips, antennas and how things have changed over the past 10 years.

    http://tinyurl.com/yj82y7f
  • I received a new unit from amazon uk and its sirf3 ( 3.00s ) :(
    A good review of the two units would be great.
  • I possible to get the DOP values in the track logs?
  • I use my 60Csx for geocaching (eight year user). I recently received my THIRD 60Csx via the Garmin $115 factory refurb program. My first two units performed perfectly. My third (current) unit is terrible. I use the compass screen to 'point' me to the waypoint and 'normally (SirfIII)' it will 'stay on point' (even in canyon terrain) all the way until the counter goes below 10 feet, at which time I stop using the GPS and begin searching with immediate results. Now the pointer jumps all over the compass, 25 - 35 feet in every direction. It never 'holds point' in one direction. It's basically useless as a geocaching GPS unless used in a one-acre parking lot with a single lamp post where the cache is hidden.

    After reading this forum I was pretty shocked to learn that Garmin has replaced the SIII with another chip (if it ain't broke,......) so I checked and sure 'nuf I have Software v4.20 and GPS Software v2.40m. A Cadillac with a Yugo chip and -not- what I originally purchased.

    All that to ask this: Is there a software patch/update that makes the 'other' chip perform the way the SIII does? Does GPS Software v3.00 improve performance?

    I know this is an old thread, but any help appreciated. I purchased a 62s and it's no better.
  • Boyd 1795 Points
    I use my 60Csx for geocaching (eight year user).
    Something's a little wrong with your math there... the 60csx was introduced in January 2006. :) http://www8.garmin.com/pressroom/outdoor/010306b.html
    LAS VEGAS, Nev./January 3, 2006/PR Newswire — Garmin International Inc., a unit of Garmin Ltd. (Nasdaq: GRMN), today announced that it is refreshing its most popular handheld navigation devices by adding removable microSD memory in a waterproof and ruggedized housing. The new x-series devices were introduced at the 2006 Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas (booth #35920).

    The eTrex Legend® Cx, eTrex Vista® Cx, GPSMAP® 60Cx, GPSMAP 60CSx, GPSMAP 76Cx, and GPSMAP 76CSx will all feature the new card slot. In addition, the new 60x-series and 76x-series units will feature a new and highly sensitive GPS receiver that obtains faster acquisition times and lets users determine and track their location in challenging conditions such as heavy foliage or deep canyons.
    Garmin seems to be standardizing on the STM Cartesio chips for most of their handheld products, inlcuding the Oregon, Dakota, Montana 62, and 78 series.

    The new eTrex 30 might be worth a look. I have not followed it too closely but know it uses a newer chipset that support GLOSNASS. These only just started shipping so there are not a lot of user reports yet. See Rich Owing's article "GLOSNASS in my hand" over at GPSTracklog.com for starters.
  • Gee, thanks for the help in addressing my problem. Your post-count has been incremented. Success for you.
  • Boyd 1795 Points
    Always happy to help. Welcome to the site.
  • I use my 60Csx for geocaching (eight year user). I recently received my THIRD 60Csx via the Garmin $115 factory refurb program. My first two units performed perfectly. My third (current) unit is terrible. I use the compass screen to 'point' me to the waypoint and 'normally (SirfIII)' it will 'stay on point' (even in canyon terrain) all the way until the counter goes below 10 feet, at which time I stop using the GPS and begin searching with immediate results. Now the pointer jumps all over the compass, 25 - 35 feet in every direction. It never 'holds point' in one direction. It's basically useless as a geocaching GPS unless used in a one-acre parking lot with a single lamp post where the cache is hidden.

    After reading this forum I was pretty shocked to learn that Garmin has replaced the SIII with another chip (if it ain't broke,......) so I checked and sure 'nuf I have Software v4.20 and GPS Software v2.40m. A Cadillac with a Yugo chip and -not- what I originally purchased.

    All that to ask this: Is there a software patch/update that makes the 'other' chip perform the way the SIII does? Does GPS Software v3.00 improve performance?

    I know this is an old thread, but any help appreciated. I purchased a 62s but it has sticky issues all it's own, so no solution there.

    If you have beneficial help, tips, links to other helpful threads/sites, etc, please post. If you have nothing more than criticism, correction to grammer, punctuation, etc, or just want to increase your post-count, please don't waste your (and my) time.
  • gatorguy 224 Points
    If you wish to be rude to the other members here, particularly long-time moderators who go out of their way to see every question receives an answer, please don't waste our time.

    It's not the best way for a new member to start out.
  • Thanks for listening. Maybe my post will serve to answer some questions for other users who wonder why their previously-reliable Csx has suddenly gone south after a Garmin repair exchange.

    To reiterate, check software version by following this key sequence:

    ON>Menu>Menu>Setup>System>Menu>Software Version>

    There will be two 'Versions' displayed:

    Software Version X.xx
    GPS SW Version X.xx(alpha letter) If alpha='m', it's not SirfIII.

    Anyone who has a 60Csx with a confirmed SirfIII chipset and who wants to sell, contact me.

    Happy Holidays to all.
  • zee 97 Points
    You might try hitting the Page button and cutting off the Elec Compass. My MTK 60Cx has no El Compass, and the GPS Compass is pretty darn steady as I move along.
    I'm a heavy Map Page user, since it has so many good features, from being able to toggle between the Course or Bearing on the Go To Line, or using the Measure Distance line, if the Go To line is too wide, lots of choices in the Data Fields, including the Pointer, and being able to using the rocker to pan the white arrow to the destination, where the Map Pointer box shows the destination L/L, UTM UPS, or whatever you are using.
  • If you have only used the MTK you'll not notice a difference. A very large per cent of the positive performance of a handhed GPS is in the confidence of the user. I used a sirfIII for years and it was replaced with the MTK and I immediately noticed performance issues under true canyon and canopy conditions. I didn't even know the MTK chip existed but my suspicion that 'something was askew' drove me to research Garmin performance issues and the chipset change surfaced immediately.

    I outlined the entire performance and research issue and sent it to Garmin tech support asking how I could exchange for what I originally purchased: SirfIII. All I wanted was another 'exchange unit' with the SirfIII chipset (what I thought the Map 60Csx had all along), but was TOTALLY IGNORED.

    So, for their efforts, I am shopping for a smartphone. It's no wonder the cell industry is eating their lunch. I'll never purchase another garmin product brand new. They don't value me, they're off my list.
    But I'll find another 60Csx with a SirfIII and purchase it used.
  • I have used a Garmin GPSmap 60CSX for a number of years and I was very happy with the performance of the unit, I used it as a handheld unit for hiking and I also used it in a vehicle by connecting it to a laptop via the GPS USB port. On the laptop I used nRoute and Mobile PC as a navigation tool. I had developed a preference to using nRoute.

    A few month ago while hiking the GPS started to act up. The unit would lockup and none of the buttons would operate.
    The only way to restore operation was to pull the battery and restart the GPS. Everything appeared to operate normal again until the problem happened again.

    I decide to buy a new GPSmap 60CSX and found they were no longer being manufactured but there was some in stock in the REI stores in the US and the bargain price of US$219.
    So I had my daughter in the US buy one for me. I received it a few weeks later and did some comparisons between the old and new units. They should be the same, they are identical model number right?
    I have found out a lot of interesting things because they are not totally the same unit. Here is what I found out:

    I noticed initially that there were some software difference as follows:
    new / old
    Software ver. 4.20 / 4.00
    GPS SW ver. 2.40m / 3.00s

    You can get this info from your 60CSX by entering MENU>MENU>SETUP>SYSTEM>MENU. Choose "Software Version".
    After doing some research on the internet I discovered that the new unit with the "m" in the GPS SW ver.utilizes a MediaTek chip while the old unit has a SiRF III chipset designated by the "s".
    The SiRF III has a excellent reputation for sensitivity, fast satellite acquisition and ability to stay locked on even in heavy over growth.
    Doing a Side by side test with the two units using identical mapsets on the microSD card I found the following:

    The old unit appeared to start up much faster. That is on start up it took only a few seconds on the old unit to allow you to go from the start page to other pages in the GPS.
    When I moved to the satellite page it appears the old chipset allows you to go map page and the satellite page even though a satellite lock had not been fully acquired yet.

    On the new unit the GPS stayed on the start page a longer time than the old unit.The difference here was considerable 07 sec. for the old unit and 58 sec for the new unit.
    It delay appeared related to the mapset size. As the mapset used got larger (2-3.5 GB) the GPS with the new chip took longer time to load the mapset than the old chip.

    On a performance basis the old unit acquired satellites much faster than the new unit and the satellite signal strength on the satellite page was much stronger with the old unit.
    This was done outdoors with the units side by side. If you Google it, others with more knowledge of the different chipsets than me state the SiRF III chip has a higher sensitivity than the MediaTek chip.
    This basically translates into getting a satellite signal faster and keeping it under obstructed conditions.

    The new Garmin 60CSX with new MediaTek chip also does NOT work with nRoute. This was confirmed with Garmin when I contacted them. They appeared very aware of it when I gave them the Software versions.
    They state that the new software is not compatible with the old nRoute. They do not acknowledge they changed the chipset. That apparently is Proprietary Information.

    Map transfers appear to work correctly. Other functions appear to be the same.
    This could explain why the 4.20 Software version is not available for the GPSmap 60CSX on the Garmin website.
    Version 4.20 is a software patch to get the units with the MediaTek chip out the door but one could easily conclude that the software/chipset upgrade broke the USB output if you needed to use it with nRoute.

    The discussion with Garmin was lengthy, Initially they said they could do nothing about it and it was just a problem with old unsupported nRoute software. and new GPS software upgrades.
    They had difficulty addressing the fact that the old 60CSX with the 4.00 software version worked without problem.
    Garmin finally agreed in exchange to take my new 60CSX and give me a "like new" 60CSX with the 4.00 software version and the SiRF III chipset.

    Related to this Garmin also offers an Exchange/Repair of the 60CSX. All Exchange/Repair units returned to the customer will be GPS SW ver. 2.40m MediaTek chip. A quote from Garmin "There will be no way in the future to get a device of that type unless you are able to buy from a store that somehow still has an old version."
    My own tests later after my discussion with Garmin indicated that the new 60CSX appears to work with Mobile PC.

    On a less important note the old GPS had the Americas Recreational Basemap V4 installed while the new unit had installed AMR Standard Autoroute Basemap NR 3.00.
    The old basemap had considerably more detail than the new one. More roads and non business points of interest.
    I recognize that this essentially gets overwritten by the installed maps but I, with my more detail is better attitude preferred the old basemap.
    In an earlier discussion with Garmin they stated that I was stuck with the new less detailed basemap and it could not be changed even though the new Garmin Instruction Manual makes mention of the presence of the Americas Recreational Basemap.

    This information may be useful to other GPSmap 60CSX owners who may be experiencing performance problems. It is not often you get to compare two versions of the same unit side by side.
    Look after your 60CSX GPS with high performing the SiRF III chipset you may not be able to get another one.
    If you research it on the internet you will find others who are less than happy with there repair exchange unit once it has been returned with the MediaTek chip.
    I understand Garmin in their wisdom are using these new chips in the newer handheld GPSs so they are not getting any better.
  • Love my 60Csx! Use it every day. Last month it turned over 30,000 miles on the ODO and I haven't really had it that long. It has NEVER failed me.

    Thanks for the comparison report! I will regret the day I am forced to buy another device. For my style of GPSrin', the 60Csx is perrrrrrrfect!

    Again, thanks to all here to contribute to my enjoyment.

    Mike
  • Not sure if anyone cares all these years later. I was searching to try and find out what chipsets my two 60csx have. The first one has SirfIII mentioned on the startup screen. It also talks about it on the bottom of the box. Lastly, I have the letter "s" on the latest firmware update (12-18-2012).

    The second 60csx has on the bottom of the box "Garmin reserves the right to make changes to it's products at any time in an attempt to deliver the best product." This is where the other box says SirfIII. Also, firmware has an "m".

    I also have a 62st. Both the 60csx with the SirfIII and the 62st (no idea what chipset - now its not SirfIII) go with me. The 60csx seems to do a little better job of giving a clean and accurate track and does a better job of showing true speed. I have a graph of 60csx and 62st on @m@zon for elevatiom and speed for both on same graph. If you want to check them out. Both were calibrated right before hike for altimeter and compass.
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