Nuvi 1450 - What kind of sd mirco card?
  • chobo2
    Posts: 63
    Hi

    I tired to install the latest map updates on my 1450 device and found it did not have enough room(I did not install anything other than maps on the device).

    Support tells me I need a micro sd card. I am wondering how fast does the card need to be?

    I am looking at a 8gb class 4 card and a 8gb class 6 card. There is about a ~$5 difference but if the speed of a class 4 is fast enough to run the maps I rather save the money.
  • t923347
    Posts: 2,581
    It is my understanding that the class speed is only a factor in writing to the card, not in reading from it, which is what you'll be doing if you place maps on it.

    On the other hand I guess the maps would be installed faster on the class 6 card than they would on the class 4. :wink:
  • SkipD
    Posts: 53
    A friend of mine has one of those units and a 2GB card is all that was needed to provide space for the full North America map set.

    When upgrading to a newer map, we had to delete the files from the card before downloading the newer map would be allowed. Thus, a 4GB card may be a better choice.
  • alanb
    Posts: 2,233
    I think the only difference you MIGHT see between the class 4 and class 6 cards is the time it takes to install or copy the map file to the card. I doubt if you will see much difference in operation of the nuvi.
  • t923347
    Posts: 2,581
    SkipD said:

    A friend of mine has one of those units and a 2GB card is all that was needed to provide space for the full North America map set.

    When upgrading to a newer map, we had to delete the files from the card before downloading the newer map would be allowed. Thus, a 4GB card may be a better choice.



    You'd probably want to delete the old maps from the card before putting new ones on it anyway. Depending on how the SD Card file names work, it maybe required whether there is space for more than one map version anyway.
  • chobo2
    Posts: 63
    t923347 said:

    It is my understanding that the class speed is only a factor in writing to the card, not in reading from it, which is what you'll be doing if you place maps on it.

    On the other hand I guess the maps would be installed faster on the class 6 card than they would on the class 4. :wink:



    According to this guys bench marks different classes have different speeds.

    http://blog.whitesites.com/microSDHC-Performance-Benchmarks-Class-10-Class-6-Class-2__634469748755468750_blog.htm

    His post did not have class 4 in the tests though. I am not too concerned about write speed I guess but more read speed. When I am driving I want to be refreshing at a good rate. I don't care if it take a few extra minutes to install the map onto the card while I am at home.
  • chobo2
    Posts: 63
    t923347 said:

    SkipD said:

    A friend of mine has one of those units and a 2GB card is all that was needed to provide space for the full North America map set.

    When upgrading to a newer map, we had to delete the files from the card before downloading the newer map would be allowed. Thus, a 4GB card may be a better choice.



    You'd probably want to delete the old maps from the card before putting new ones on it anyway. Depending on how the SD Card file names work, it maybe required whether there is space for more than one map version anyway.


    I don't understand why it does not delete them by default. Why would you want the old map? How do you actually tell your on the new map and not on the old map anyways?
  • sussamb
    Posts: 4,330
    Well you can look at Tools>Settings>Map>Map info :wink:
  • t923347
    Posts: 2,581
    chobo2 said:

    I don't understand why it does not delete them by default. Why would you want the old map?



    It would automatically delete the old map file if you where placing them in the default location, the Nuvi's internal storage. Placing them on the SD card is not the default location, and normally is not an automated process as you need to download the update to your computer and then use software like Garmin's MapInstall to place them on the SD card.

    Garmin may have already or will in the future, update their map installation procedure to allow direct map updates to an SD card, then the process could possibly be altered to automatically delete older versions found on the card.
  • chobo2
    Posts: 63
    t923347 said:

    chobo2 said:

    I don't understand why it does not delete them by default. Why would you want the old map?



    It would automatically delete the old map file if you where placing them in the default location, the Nuvi's internal storage. Placing them on the SD card is not the default location, and normally is not an automated process as you need to download the update to your computer and then use software like Garmin's MapInstall to place them on the SD card.

    Garmin may have already or will in the future, update their map installation procedure to allow direct map updates to an SD card, then the process could possibly be altered to automatically delete older versions found on the card.


    Well then Garmin was cheap or short sighted. If it is deleting the old maps then why don't I have enough space on my device if that's all I have on it?
  • t923347
    Posts: 2,581
    Simply because the maps have got to big for the available space. That's why all the newer models have at least twice the storage space as the 1450 (4 or 8Gb instead of 2Gb).

    Can't argue that Garmin may have been shortsighted or cheap about the amount of storage space on your model but at the time it was released (I got my 1490 in November 2009), it was big enough to hold the full NA mapset. That mapset has got bigger, life goes on. :wink:
  • Billw439
    Posts: 179
    And back then the memory was not as cheap as it is today. To a manufacturer producing 100k copies a saving of $5 a copy is a fortune on the bottom line.
  • chobo2
    Posts: 63
    Billw439 said:

    And back then the memory was not as cheap as it is today. To a manufacturer producing 100k copies a saving of $5 a copy is a fortune on the bottom line.



    I just bought the 1450 in summer. How old is it? I would think if they would have the same model out for year and years they would do at least minor upgrades to it(like more memory).
  • t923347
    Posts: 2,581
    Garmin is not known for making hardware changes to a model line. Easier to release a whole new line.

    Although they may still be making the 1xxx models they came out first in 2009 and have always had the same amount of internal storage as your device, at least for NA models. On the other hand they have released at least the 2xxx, 3xxx, 5000, and 16xx models since then.
  • Boyd
    Posts: 11,608
    Not sure if it has been produced for awhile. Note that it's listed as a "previous model" and has been in that category for a number of months...

    https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=402&pID=63932

    Home » On the Road » All Road Products » Automotive » Previous Models

    nüvi® 1450

    Part Number: 010-00810-20
    Suggested Retail Price: $ 179.99 USD
  • t923347
    Posts: 2,581
    Garmin is not known for making hardware changes to a model line. Easier to release a whole new line.

    Although they may still be making the 1xxx models they came out first in 2009 and have always had the same amount of internal storage as your device, at least for NA models.
  • sussamb
    Posts: 4,330
    chobo2 said:

    Billw439 said:

    And back then the memory was not as cheap as it is today. To a manufacturer producing 100k copies a saving of $5 a copy is a fortune on the bottom line.



    I just bought the 1450 in summer. How old is it? I would think if they would have the same model out for year and years they would do at least minor upgrades to it(like more memory).


    Hey, look on the bright side ... at least Garmin gave you a card slot so that you could add memory if needed 😃
  • comsnark
    Posts: 48
    I gotta agree with the above comment.

    MicroSD cards are comparatively cheap. . . and the extra space will come in handy if you ever decide to do something crazy like add Europe Maps.
  • chobo2
    Posts: 63
    So back to the original question is a class 4 read rate high enough?
  • popej
    Posts: 701
    Read again first answer: class of a card is no indication of read speed.

    And actually not a reliable indication of write speed. Buy a card form good manufacturer like SanDisk, Toshiba, Samsung and it will be ok regardless of its class.
  • chobo2
    Posts: 63
    popej said:

    Read again first answer: class of a card is no indication of read speed.

    And actually not a reliable indication of write speed. Buy a card form good manufacturer like SanDisk, Toshiba, Samsung and it will be ok regardless of its class.



    Do you have any sites that say this? As the site I posted to in my link shows that there is a difference in read speeds vs different classes
  • Boyd
    Posts: 11,608
    If you can afford a faster card, there's no harm getting one. I have bought into the "net wisdom" about read speeds being comparable on different class cards myself, but just did a quick test that makes me wonder. I copied a folder with 330MB of files from a card to my computer and saw the following times...

    Class 2: 5 seconds
    Class 4: 46 seconds
    Class 10: 9 seconds

    Kind of puzzling. But there are some big caveats here... the class 4 was a 32GB card which had about 28GB of files on it already, so I'm guessing that created additional overhead in reading the card. The class 10 card also had some files on it already, but the Class 2 card was freshly formatted and only contained my test files.

    Honestly though, you're probably over-thinking this. I suggest you get the fastest card you can find, because it's probably going to bother you otherwise, wondering whether it would have made a difference. :wink:
  • popej
    Posts: 701
    To get any reasonable conclusions you need many many more tests. Try to analyze:
    http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/reader_report_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-9438
    http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/index.html

    Now consider that card speed depends on read block size. Maximum transfers are recorded for big blocks. Best speed for big blocks doesn't assure best speed for small blocks. Since we don't know what is typical block size used in nuvis and we don't know how effective is caching algorithm, all this comparison of speeds has very little meaning in practice.

    @Boyd: big cards usually have low transfer for small blocks. If you copy a directory with multiple files, then real transfer is low. I think good measure of card efficiency would be IOPS - input-output operations per second. Many high speed cards can do about 10-20 writes per second, which is very poor. Reading should be much better.
  • DrRiderOR
    Posts: 20
    When I bought my 1450LMT a couple of weeks ago, I got online and did the update. The entire City Navigator 2012 fit on the OEM memory inside the 1450. I downloaded my TOPO West maps to an SD card and plugged that in. The TOPO works fine from the SD card.

    There is less than 16Meg of space left in the GPS memory. Won't last long as data sizes grow.

    Ken
  • chobo2
    Posts: 63
    DrRiderOR said:

    When I bought my 1450LMT a couple of weeks ago, I got online and did the update. The entire City Navigator 2012 fit on the OEM memory inside the 1450. I downloaded my TOPO West maps to an SD card and plugged that in. The TOPO works fine from the SD card.

    There is less than 16Meg of space left in the GPS memory. Won't last long as data sizes grow.

    Ken



    What is City Navigator? Is this some plugin or is this tied to the maps that get downloaded?
  • t923347
    Posts: 2,581
    It is the maps that are on your Nuvi.
  • Boyd said:

    If you can afford a faster card, there's no harm getting one. I have bought into the "net wisdom" about read speeds being comparable on different class cards myself, but just did a quick test that makes me wonder. I copied a folder with 330MB of files from a card to my computer and saw the following times...

    Class 2: 5 seconds
    Class 4: 46 seconds
    Class 10: 9 seconds

    Kind of puzzling. But there are some big caveats here... the class 4 was a 32GB card which had about 28GB of files on it already, so I'm guessing that created additional overhead in reading the card. The class 10 card also had some files on it already, but the Class 2 card was freshly formatted and only contained my test files.

    Honestly though, you're probably over-thinking this. I suggest you get the fastest card you can find, because it's probably going to bother you otherwise, wondering whether it would have made a difference. :wink:



    I can identify with that concern as I tend to be overly concerned when purchasing products.

    After two weeks of scouring forums for users' opinions, Amazon reviews of various memory cards, and technically leaning rating sites like Toms' etc., comparing, rating, and comparing again..

    I purchased for my 1490T a Lexar 16GB MicroSDHC Class 6 on Amazon. The price at that time (Aug 2011) was $39.95 which has probably lowered significantly since then.


    I spoke on telephone with Kingston reps as well as other representatives and I learned from them and the reviews of calculated transfer speeds that a particular Class 4 in a well respected memory manufacturer did not transfer as fast as other competitors. That was one variable that went into my decision. One very important variable was the complaint history related to various brands of memory cards. After several months with my choice I am satisfied that it was the right choice. Sure, I have far more than needed space on this MicroSDHC than I can use but it was the reliability of performance over time, the durability, and a generous transfer speed that led to my decision.

    EDIT: The price today is $15.00! Jump on it!
    http://www.amazon.com/Lexar-Mobile-MicroSDHC-High-Speed-adaptor/dp/B004J5CM9O
  • Here is an example of how fast the Lexar 16GB MicroSDHC Class 6 is.

    Just a few moments ago I returned to
    http://download.garmin.com/support/2012_40/NA/JV/D3060050A.JCV and downloaded the D3060050A.JCV large size JCV file onto my computer. That file is 775,260 KB in size.

    I then plugged that Lexar Class 6 card into my computer's USB port - the memory card comes with its own USB reader. Using a stop watch to time it, I transferred that 775 MB JVC file onto the memory card. Transfer time from computer to the card: 85 seconds.
  • chobo2
    Posts: 63
    Ok

    I went and bought a card. How do I setup my garmin to install the maps on to it?
  • chobo2 said:

    Ok

    I went and bought a card. How do I setup my garmin to install the maps on to it?



    I made the following algorithms for myself, it has served me well. Some of the text was taken from our generous forum contributors:

    Send the maps to a blank microSD/SD card using the MapInstall program (down load at http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=3291).
    This program should be installed to your computer during the map update installation if you chose the option to install the maps to the device and the computer.


    Connect the Garmin unit to your PC

    Click Start
    Go to All Programs
    Go to Garmin
    Click MapInstall
    Click Next
    Click Find Device
    Click on the Drop Down Arrow
    Select the Removable Disk
    Click Next
    Highlight the maps you do not yet have on the Garmin unit.
    Click Next
    Click Finish

    Follow the onscreen instructions.
    The maps will now be sent to the SD card.
    ==========================================


    You will transfer data from your PC to your memory card far more faster if you plug your microSD into a card reader (!), then plug the card reader into your computer's USB port. After your data transfer is done remove your memory card from the reader and insert it into your Garmin device.

    When the process is complete do NOT just unplug your nuvi (with the card in it). Make sure you use the Windows "Safely Remove Hardware" feature to ensure that all data is written to the card. Failing to do this can result in corruption. Don't ever remove the internal gmapprom.img from internal memory or the unit will not complete the boot process and you'll get an error.

    If you upload a Mapsource map directly in your SD Card it will work along any pre-installed maps. There is no conflict. Just use the Tools / Settings / Map / Map Info menu on the bottom of your screen and select or deselect any map.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    On Nüvi you can have internally:
    gmapbmap.img (base map)
    gmapprom.img (normally preinstalled maps)
    gmpaprom1.img (used when both EU and US are on the GPS)
    gmapsupp.img (maps downloaded to the GPS)
    gmapoem.img (Oem maps?)

    On SD card you can only have gmapsupp.img
    However, if you want to keep various map sets on an SD card so you can use them in multiple nuvis, you can get creative with filenames and just "activate" the one you want by changing only the one you want to use to gmapsupp.img (and alter the name of the ones you don't want to use)
  • t923347
    Posts: 2,581


    On SD card you can only have gmapsupp.img



    If you place the maps in a folder called MAP on the SD Card you can name the map file anything you like as long as the file extension is .img. This is how you get around the gmapsupp.img file name limitation. For example if you put maps of the Pacific Northwest in the MAP folder you can rename the file to Pacificnorthwest.img.

    Since I don't have access to all the various Nuvi models I can only verify that this works on the newer ones, the 3790 for example. I'm sure others can verify if it's applicable for other models.
  • sussamb
    Posts: 4,330
    And that's how it'll work on the 14xx series also :wink:
  • popej
    Posts: 701
    Folder \Map is probably valid for nuvi 1xxx and up. For older devices like nuvi 2x5/2x5W with latest firmware you can use 2 files in directory \Garmin, these are gmapsupp.img and gmapsup1.img. Mapsource and Mapinstall always use name gmapsupp.img, so you have to rename img manually.

    You can move other parts of the map from nuvi to SD, using corresponding subdirectories on SD, like \Garmin\JCV, Garmin\ASR, Garmin\SID etc.
  • sussamb
    Posts: 4,330
    popej, I'm sure you're right :wink:

    I mentioned the 14xx series as that is what the OP has 😃
  • chobo2
    Posts: 63
    I don't see this option

    Click on the Drop Down Arrow

    I have the "garmin lifetime updater installed" and it does not have that option.
  • t923347
    Posts: 2,581
    If you are running Garmin's Mapinstall program, as described in the post you are referring to, the Drop Down Arrow is on the right hand side of the Device box which is immediately below the Find Device button. The drop down arrow is always there even if there is only one device to display.

    Whether your using the Lifetime Updater program or the installer used when you select to update your maps using Option 2, I believe you have to select to install the maps to your computer and not just the Nuvi for these procedures to work. Once the map files are stored on the computer you then use Mapinstall, as described, to place the map files either on your GPS or on an SD card.

    If your just using the Lifetime Updater program with it's default settings then the maps will be installed on your GPS and no copy will be installed on your computer.
  • chobo2
    Posts: 63
    t923347 said:

    If you are running Garmin's Mapinstall program, as described in the post you are referring to, the Drop Down Arrow is on the right hand side of the Device box which is immediately below the Find Device button. The drop down arrow is always there even if there is only one device to display.

    Whether your using the Lifetime Updater program or the installer used when you select to update your maps using Option 2, I believe you have to select to install the maps to your computer and not just the Nuvi for these procedures to work. Once the map files are stored on the computer you then use Mapinstall, as described, to place the map files either on your GPS or on an SD card.

    If your just using the Lifetime Updater program with it's default settings then the maps will be installed on your GPS and no copy will be installed on your computer.



    MapInstall won't install. It says "Previous map install not found! Setup will terminate"

    This is what I am seeing

    image

    image
  • EWyatt
    Posts: 31
    Perhaps just a little off-topic, but the speed of the SD card "may" have something to do with reading from it, as well as writing maps to it. My 1450 is fully loaded with a fairly new North American map on a relatively cheap 2GB SD card. I find that my "panning" the map across states, and regions is extremely slow and jerky. I must touch & pan very slowly for it to catch up and draw the new map locations..... etc. Perhaps with a "faster," higher class SD card, this panning efficiency could be improved. OR.... perhaps the 1450 is innately very slow and pathetic. That could be it.
  • t923347
    Posts: 2,581
    I don't have my 1490 anymore but I recall it was really hard to pan the map even with the maps stored on the GPS. Not sure about it being "pathetic" but it was somewhat under powered :wink:
  • t923347
    Posts: 2,581
    You shouldn't need to INSTALL Mapinstall . Look at your first screen shot and you will see a Settings button in the lower left corner. Click on that button and then click on Installation. From the choices presented, select Install to Computer Only and click Done.

    Now download the 2012.40 map update. When the download completes you should find the full version of Mapinstall in the Garmin folder on your computer. At that point you should be able to run the program and it will automatically find the 2012.40 maps on your PC. Select the SD card as the destination device and the regions you want to install on the card and Mapinstall should do the rest.
  • chobo2
    Posts: 63
    t923347 said:

    You shouldn't need to INSTALL Mapinstall . Look at your first screen shot and you will see a Settings button in the lower left corner. Click on that button and then click on Installation. From the choices presented, select Install to Computer Only and click Done.

    Now download the 2012.40 map update. When the download completes you should find the full version of Mapinstall in the Garmin folder on your computer. At that point you should be able to run the program and it will automatically find the 2012.40 maps on your PC. Select the SD card as the destination device and the regions you want to install on the card and Mapinstall should do the rest.



    Ya I go there and I see

    "City Navigator North America NT 2012.40.gmap - shorcut"
    "City Navigator North America NT 2012.40.gmap - folder"

    when I click on shortcut it want me to find a program as windows does not know what to do with it.
  • t923347
    Posts: 2,581
    chobo2 said:


    Ya I go there and I see

    "City Navigator North America NT 2012.40.gmap - shorcut"
    "City Navigator North America NT 2012.40.gmap - folder"

    when I click on shortcut it want me to find a program as windows does not know what to do with it.



    You go where⁉

    If you've downloaded the 2012.40 maps to your computer then go to the Garmin folder on your PC, find the Mapinstall entry and run it by double clicking on it.

    I have no idea what these entries are or where they are on your computer:

    "City Navigator North America NT 2012.40.gmap - shorcut"
    "City Navigator North America NT 2012.40.gmap - folder"
  • Sorry, a little confused here.
    I just purchased the lifetime maps and went to install an update on my 1690. It wanted me to use an SD card which I would prefer not to use. I ended up downloading a reduced size map (Lower 49).
    Can I just delete all maps from the device and then download a new update? Or am I stuck for 3 months because I downloaded a map last night?
    TIA
  • alanb
    Posts: 2,233
    You can reinstall as often as you need to. You don't need to delete the old map first, the install process will replace the old map with the new one. The 1xxx series is notoriously short on storage, so you may need to use a SD card if you want the entire NA map. I suggest you peruse the tutorials written by forum member Lilla for the 1490T nuvi. You will find the link in this thread: Tutorial on deleting unnecessary files to make room.
  • chobo2
    Posts: 63
    Ok

    Have much trying. I been able to install the maps(I had to use mapinstall). One thing that confuses me is I am still not sure if I have all the maps(I think I selected everything on the map...kinda stupid that they don't seem to have a select everything option).

    In tools I see this

    CN NorthAmerica NT 2012.40
    [1] WESTERN ALASKA, EASTERN ALASKA, HON

    CN Noth America NT 2012.20
    [1] US & Canada


    Now I unchecked the 2nd one as that is the old maps. However I still don't know if I have all of US & Canada for .40 as it seems to cut and I can't be sure if I have Canada or not.

    Is there an better way I can verify?
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