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City Navigator 2015.20 has been released

Garmin released City Navigator NA 2015.20 for download today. It is available using Garmin Express (have not tried MapUpdater).

For those of you that require the large full screen Junction View File for CN 2015.20, it is available for download from:

http://download.garmin.com/support/2015_20/NA/JV/D3060150A.JCV
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Comments

  • sussamb 813 Points
    For those interested both CN NA and CN EU 2015.20 have been loaded onto the Garmin servers, so expect a map update soon'ish ;)
  • t923347 432 Points
    Usually 2 to 3 weeks after being loaded so Tim's prediction of Aug 21st won't be far off. =D>
  • jonnop 101 Points
    So does this mean that those of us with slightly older equipment (such as a 1490) will now be able to update their maps?
  • sussamb 813 Points
    I haven't been able to check on the CN EU NT version, but it was promised in August so hopefully yes.
  • t923347 432 Points
    edited August 2014
    Sorry, I forgot about this thread and started a new one. 2015.20 was released for North America today.

    For those of you that require the large full screen Junction View File for CN 2015.20, it is available for download from:

    http://download.garmin.com/support/2015_20/NA/JV/D3060150A.JCV
  • werewolf 107 Points
    But when I downloaded that it only offered 2015.1 which I already have.
  • werewolf 107 Points
    edited August 2014
    Also, I think that Garmin is trying to make it harder, if not impossible, to use my lifetime updates with my old 276C which is not compatible with their Garmin Express, and Garmin Express is all that they are offering on their main page now:

    garmin.com/en-US/maps/updates/?zebratwo=CJ&utm_source=CJ&utm_medium=Text&utm_campaign=Map&gclid=Cj0KEQjwmayfBRDo25CR9un4hvEBEiQAv9fBbXoB9EfoPNeXkZb-wqXHt-KuSEQyZcyCi-ftRulvGaIaAqyG8P8HAQ
  • alanb 541 Points
    Garmin Map Updater v 3.3.3 can still be used. You can downloaded it here: GarminMapUpdater for PC or GarminMapUpdater for Mac
  • werewolf 107 Points
    Thanks, AlanB, but yes I do still have that link, but they seeming to be hiding it now. It used to be that when I downloaded the Garmin Express and then it told me my 276C wasn't compatible, it would link to it, but no more. Now it just says not compatible and that's it. Also, when i tried the Updater it I was just 2015.1 that it was offering.
  • alanb 541 Points
    Interesting ... I am using Map Updater to update to 2015.20 on my 3 nuvi's and it is offering the 2015.20 update. My nuvis are supported by Garmin Express but I don't trust Express and prefer to use Map Updater. I wonder if Garmin has retired lifetime updates on the 276C?
  • werewolf 107 Points
    " I wonder if Garmin has retired lifetime updates on the 276C? "

    Well that wouldn't be right. I paid for lifetime updates. But has Garmin officially released 2015.2 yet? It doesn't appear on the website when I sign in. All I see here is 2015.1:

    https://my.garmin.com/mygarmin/customers/myMapsHome.faces

    Do you see 2015.2 when you sign in? If so I'm going to call them up.



  • t923347 432 Points
    edited August 2014
    Well I've loaded it on 2 of my Nuvi models today so 2015.20 has been released. ;) On the other hand, I have no idea where your located so if your looking for 2015.20 Europe, it may not yet be available but the North American version is.

    By the way, you may have paid for lifetime maps but when you did you agreed to Garmin's disclaimer which outlines what will be considered as "lifetime" . You can see the disclaimer you agreed to here:

    http://www.garmin.com/en-US/legal/lmdisclaimer
  • werewolf 107 Points
    edited August 2014
    t9 -

    I see no loophole for them on that link regarding updating my 276C vis-a-vis their "useful life" stipulations - unless they get their Philadelphia lawyers to say that since 276c is not compatible with Garmin Express it is past its useful life....

    "(a) has sufficient memory capacity and other required technical capabilities to utilize current map data ".

    I'm in Arizona.

    So then, when you go to this "My Garmin" link

    https://my.garmin.com/mygarmin/customers/myMapsHome.faces

    and sign in, do you see 2015.2, because I do not?

  • sussamb 813 Points
    Your 276 may not be able to 'utilize current map data' ... nothing to do with Express. But let's hope not.
  • werewolf 107 Points
    edited August 2014
    My 276 has been utilizing current map data just fine through 2015.1.

    I just tried to send in to Garmin email support, but it won't even let me do that, because you need to check mark your unit in order to proceed and my unit is not listed.
  • sussamb 813 Points
    edited August 2014
    E mail them directly at product.support@garmin.com although you might do better phoning them
  • t923347 432 Points
    werewolf said:


    I'm in Arizona.

    So then, when you go to this "My Garmin" link

    https://my.garmin.com/mygarmin/customers/myMapsHome.faces

    and sign in, do you see 2015.2, because I do not?

    Yes, I see 2015.20 but I have to ask why are you going to your myGarmin.com account? What happens if you attach your GPS to your computer and run either Garmin Express (which you'll need to anyway to get the map update via your myGarmin account) or Garmin MapUpdater software.

  • I just started updating my 765t to 2015.20, using Map Updater. Several hours to go, but so far everything is happening just like it always has. Fingers crossed...
  • BTW, in the past I've usually seen an announcement for a new map when logged into my.garmin.com, but that's not showing up today. However, MapUpdater was aware of the new 2015.20 update.
  • werewolf 107 Points
    t923347 said:

    ...
    Yes, I see 2015.20 but I have to ask why are you going to your myGarmin.com account? What happens if you attach your GPS to your computer and run either Garmin Express (which you'll need to anyway to get the map update via your myGarmin account) or Garmin MapUpdater software.

    That was the first thing I did earlier yesterday when I saw that the new map was supposed to be available, but it only offered me 2015.1. I will call them today.

  • WAASup 86 Points
    Installed with no problems to my 2595 in 50 minutes. Forgot to specify "Device and PC" so ran "PC only" after. It had 10 of a total 20 minutes remaining when I went to bed. This morning it still showed 10 minutes remaining.

    Restarted and it appeared hung. Rebooted the PC, tried again and it completed in about a minute. 2015.20 maps look good in both BaseCamp and MapSource. Hmmmm...
  • alanb 541 Points
    edited August 2014
    I updated all 3 of my nuvis (3597, 855 and 755) to 2015.20 using Garmin Map Updater v3.3.3 and cloned SD cards, then copying the updated files back to the nuvi internal storage after the update completed. The only issue I had was on the 3597. Map Updater downloaded a new copy of the gmapdem.img file, but had it named incorrectly as D2248000B.img. All I had to do is rename it to gmapdem.img before copying back to the device.

    This was the most trouble free map update I have done in the last several versions, although I have not done any road testing of the map yet.
  • werewolf 107 Points
    I called Garmin. The friendly man in the Garmin marine division (276 was considered a combo marine unit) answered immediately. Just as I was afraid of, Garmin has declared the 276 and related models obsolete. He emailed me a copy of the Garmin memo, below. He said they will offer me 15% off if I buy a new device, but that would be off Garmin's list price. Meanwhile 276C's are selling for $750 on Ebay!

    Garmin July 2014
    Can City Navigator NT be updated on my portable marine device (GPSMAP 276c, 376c, 378, 478)?
    City Navigator NT updates are no longer compatible with these devices due to both hardware limitation of the device and improvements in mapping technology.


  • SouthSwedish 31 Points
    edited August 2014
    Installed without any problem on my 3597
    Total time 59 minutes including download and install time, on a 30 Mb/s VDSL-line using Latest Garmin Express 3.2.17.0 on Windows 7
  • werewolf 107 Points
    "Garmin has declared the 276 and related models obsolete"

    So now you know what "lifetime" means to Garmin, in case you really like your GPS and it still works good and you want to keep it - but the marketing execs want to sell more new ones instead.
  • Tim 1481 Points
    It costs money to support old devices. If you want your GPS to be supported for more than 10 years then the initial cost will go up. Frankly, I applaud Garmin for maintaining these for so long!
  • werewolf 107 Points
    How much will it cost them, if anything, to just not block a device from being able to download updates? And how many people would object to paying a little more in order to avoid built in obsolescence? Microsoft does the same thing with their Windows products, like with the still perfectly serviceable Windows XP. Also, it's false advertising. The word lifetime has a meaning in the English language.
  • t923347 432 Points
    Not sure what about this could be considered false advertising. Garmin has been clear from day one what was considered "lifetime". Although they may have altered the wording of their definintion of lifetime, over the years, it's remained pretty much the same since they orginally introduced the feature.

    Although I don't have any idea what makes the 276c no longer compatible with City Navigator updates, I can guess that since the device appears to be a marine/auto hybrid that that has something to do with it. Not many auto gps units that can no longer be updated, and AFAIK all Nuvi models since the orginal 350 (circa 2005), can still be updated.
  • werewolf 107 Points
    edited August 2014
    Unless map 2015.2 has technically changed from 2015.1 - and the Garmin man I spoke with yesterday had no info that it had - all the map updates have been 100% compatible with 276C, and as I said above referring the the link that you provided about Garmin's stipulations on what they call "lifetime", I don't see any loophole that would cover this situation if there was no technical changes rendering it somehow incompatible, just that they arbitrarily decided that "lifetime" went on long enough and they'd rather make the people with this very popular device - as evidenced by its current price on Ebay, selling now for more than it did when it was new - buy something new.

    Garmin 276C, $750

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Excellent-Garmin-276c-GPS-Map-Bundle-Marine-Chart-Plotter-Tablet-376c-478-378-/390906474629?pt=GPS_Devices&hash=item5b03d77085
  • Tim 1481 Points
    Asking price, especially on eBay, is not indicative of current value. If you look though the forums here you will find that a good percentage of people here are having difficulty with some part of the map update process, even with in-warranty devices. They represent a big portion of calls to tech support. (And those tech support employees get paid.) All hardware and software companies like Garmin and Microsoft spent lots of money on tech support.

    I'm happy Microsoft has officially discontinued providing updates and patches for software that is over a decade old so that they can put more money and energy into improving their current products and ensuring future products don't cost sky-high prices. (Computer programmers get paid too.)

    You are right, "lifetime" does have a meaning in the English language, but "nüMaps Lifetime™" is a Garmin trademark so they get to decide what it means and all of us who purchased the product agreed to their definition.
  • werewolf 107 Points
    edited August 2014
    We disagree, Tim. I've been with Garmin for a long time, going back to long before GPS had maps, and way back before they disabled selective scrambling, at which point sales of GPS took off. Before that, most people didn't even know what GPS was. I think my first was Garmin model two, and then I upgraded to model 2+ (I can't find a good place to see those early models). I'm going to start researching new GPS's now since I can no longer update my 276C (this is my second 276C, by the way, and before it I had the 176). Hopefully I can find a good one from another company.
  • kenp 92 Points
    Tim said:

    ...I'm happy Microsoft has officially discontinued providing updates and patches for software that is over a decade old so that they can put more money and energy into improving their current products and ensuring future products don't cost sky-high prices. (Computer programmers get paid too.)...

    I'm not entirely happy about MS abandoning their older software. There are programs that just won't run under Windows 7 and 8. Newer versions of some programs are available - at a cost to the user - and some just aren't at any cost.

    I don't think I'll be upset when my 255W is eventually abandoned, though. The cost will be small compared to what the Windows XP abandonment cost. And whatever new device I move to will not have an interface designed by whoever designed the Windows 8 interface. :)

    Ken

  • Zemartelo 207 Points
    I got it installed. No issues with Garmin Express.
    As for the maps did not notice any differences from previous map except for the addition of more water bodies.
  • menhir 112 Points
    I just downloaded the new CN 2015.20 to my Nuvi 550 and computer last night using Garmin Express. No issues this time...all went smoothly.

    Lower 49 (49?) states only. I haven't been able to squeeze Canada into the Nuvi, even with the unused files removed several updates ago. I don't even try anymore.

    At this point, I've downloaded enough map updates to have made my purchase of the "Lifetime" plan worthwhile. I hope they keep it up for my device: It's getting old, they don't make 'em anymore, but it really suits my purposes well.

    Strangely, I was also alerted to download a software update for my device. I though they weren't supporting the Nuvi 500/550's series any more, other than the map updates.
  • SkipD 91 Points
    edited August 2014
    I loaded CN 2015.20 on my 755T yesterday and, for the very first time, Garmin Express put the map files on my 4gb memory card. In the past, I would get complaints about the free internal memory space getting smaller and smaller, but only now did the map get placed on the memory card.

    I had absolutely no problems getting CN 2015.20 on both the 755T and my computer (except for the time it takes, of course) with only one attempt.
  • alanb 541 Points
    On my 755T, I deleted all the unused language, text, help and vehicle files, so there is still enough space to get the entire 2015.20 map on the internal storage. However, it is down to about 200 MB free space, so I suspect on the 2015.30 map I will need to use the card. I will probably put the JCV file on the card and leave the map on the device itself.
  • menhir 112 Points
    I checked my stats and here's what I have...
    Internal Storage: 146 MB free out of 1.85 GB
    SD Card: 1.83 GB out of 1.83GB

    So, the SD card is recognized, but there's nothing on it but a couple of small files: An ID Text File, and WMPInfo document file, and a Garmin File folder with a couple of empty file folders in it.

    As I mentioned before, I haven't had room to download Canada for a long time. In fact, Garmin Express does not even list it as a option for me anymore. This begs a couple of questions...

    If I wanted Canada, could I get it again? And...
    Will Garmin automatically load to the empty SD card if the internal storage becomes insufficient in the future? And...
    If so, why did I have to cut back to the lower 49 in the past with all the extra memory available? And...
    If not, how can I get Garmin to load the maps to the SD card? Or...
    Would I have to do it myself?

    Inquiring mind wants to know.


    :>
  • SkipD 91 Points
    edited August 2014
    alanb said:

    On my 755T, I deleted all the unused language, text, help and vehicle files, so there is still enough space to get the entire 2015.20 map on the internal storage. However, it is down to about 200 MB free space, so I suspect on the 2015.30 map I will need to use the card. I will probably put the JCV file on the card and leave the map on the device itself.

    I had the previous JCV file on the additional memory card. When I did the installation of 2015.20, Garmin Express installed the map to the card and the new JCV file to the main memory. I had to remove the old JCV file and the folder it was in from the additional memory card.

  • truckinguy 115 Points
    I owned a 276C for my snowmachines. I found the Montana and bought one. Love the Montana for hiking and snowmachineing. So much better then the 276C. The funny thing is the 276C sold for $400 on Ebay same price as the Montana so It was like getting the Montana for free. Some guys have needs for that 276C still. I wouldn't go back. The Montana has a Nuvi mode too if you want a dual purpose unit. I don't like dual purpose units so I run Nuvi's in my vechiles and the Montana for hikes,snowmachining..atv's,etc
    werewolf said:

    We disagree, Tim. I've been with Garmin for a long time, going back to long before GPS had maps, and way back before they disabled selective scrambling, at which point sales of GPS took off. Before that, most people didn't even know what GPS was. I think my first was Garmin model two, and then I upgraded to model 2+ (I can't find a good place to see those early models). I'm going to start researching new GPS's now since I can no longer update my 276C (this is my second 276C, by the way, and before it I had the 176). Hopefully I can find a good one from another company.

  • werewolf 107 Points
    edited August 2014
    Truckinguy - The 276C is selling for $800 on Amazon and $750 on EBay right now. Are the Nuvi's usable off road? Can I make a waypoint where no roads are shown, like out in the desert? What can you tell me about the comparison between Garmin's top of the line Nuvis - I was looking at a new 7" screen - vs. the 276C? What I want to know is what can the 276C do that the new Nuvi can't, other than the dual marine-road feature which I never used? What will I miss about my 276 if I get the new Nuvi?

    I am pissed off atGamin because of their phony "lifetime" map update gag, but like I said I've had Garmin GPS for so many years and I guess they're still the best. Some say to use a tablet instead of a dedicated GPS, but I don't really get that. Maybe some tablets - the Ipads or Ipods or whatever they call them - have good GPS, but my Google Nexus 2013 has terrible GPS that only works some of the time, with or without wi-fi, so I don't see how I could use it for that purpose.
  • Chris_Sav 126 Points
    edited August 2014
    Back on topic.

    Now you see it, now you don't

    Been keeping an eye out for 2015.20 EU today as it's a Wednesday. Garmin Express flashed up map update to install 2hrs etc.

    Went and got the 3790T with still dodgy USB socket, locked the cats out of the office in case one of them should disturb the lead and plugged in, 2015.10 is up to date oooooooooeeeeeerrrrrrrr!

    Problems at Garmin I guess!

  • Chris_Sav 126 Points
    And now you see it again!
  • Just Installed City Navigator 2015.20 Full Europe map without any problem on my 3597.
    The map were automatically split between my internal memory and my SD-card
    Total time 65 minutes for 6,6 Gb including download and install via 30 Mb/s VDSL line.
    Average download-speed 2 Mb/s using latest Garmin express.
  • Hi, I have 2 to 3597 (Australia) updated one 2 days ago, and all is okay can go and select Arrival Time, Distance to go and Time to arrival as options to Display, however these are not available to select on the device I updated today. Have reinstalled etc but still the same.
    Anyone have a solution to this?

    Cheers
  • jonnop 101 Points
    Full Europe map on my 1490T installed without any problems. Now ready for next trip abroad in a couple of weeks.
  • werewolf 107 Points
    edited August 2014
    t923347 said:

    ...

    By the way, you may have paid for lifetime maps but when you did you agreed to Garmin's disclaimer which outlines what will be considered as "lifetime" . You can see the disclaimer you agreed to here:

    http://www.garmin.com/en-US/legal/lmdisclaimer


    The Garmin lawyers have retroactively added at least one clause to that fine print disclaimer of theirs:


    "A product will be deemed to be out of service and its useful life to be ended if no updates have been downloaded for such product for a period of 24 months or more. "


    How convenient for them. They just don't offer any more updates for their older devices, like my six year old 276C, so - voila! - "lifetime" is over!.

  • jonnop 101 Points
    Does this mean no map updates or does it mean software updates?
  • sussamb 813 Points
    Well as it's in the lifetime maps disclaimer I believe it refers to map updates.
  • jonnop 101 Points
    It is a lifetime maps disclaimer - but can you trust Garmin?
  • werewolf 107 Points
    edited August 2014
    jonnop said:

    Does this mean no map updates or does it mean software updates?


    If their legal team is going to go for that phony post-dated loophole they'll have to say software updates, since I updated the maps three months ago. They haven't offered any 276 software updates for a few years now. I was going to call them up and bug them about this some more today, and ask them how I get a refund on my "lifetime" updates, but the Garmin ans. machine said that there is a 30 to 40 minute wait. Mondays are a bad time to call. I'm hoping that enough 276 devotees are complaining so that maybe they'll do the right thing.

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