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Monterra spinning map

Tried out my refurbished Monterra for the first time on a long run today (190 miles on a classic motorcycle) and noted that the 'track up' display does not seem as stable as I have experienced on other models with the pointer wandering in its orientation, indeed the entire map does a complete 360 spin periodically whilst travelling along a road.

Sat still at traffic lights the map is spinning all over the place.

Anyone one else noticed similar with theirs or have any suggestions please?

Thx

Comments

  • privet01 145 Points
    edited March 19
    When you are still that can be understandable if only GPS is involved. As when you are not moving it has no idea which way you are facing. But moving is a different thing. It can infer from the direction of movement which way should be "track up".

    And a flux compass which I think the monterra must have should take care of that issue in any situation.

    If the flux compass can be disabled, maybe there is your answer. Though it's still seems odd about the flipping while moving.
  • Chris_Sav 59 Points
    Thanks, will take a look

    Playing with the Monterra and pointing due North along the long axis I note that it loses orientation if I rotate the Monterra 90 degrees via the short axis, keeping the long axis pointing North.

    As in the video https://youtu.be/lz5xYLZwW0M

    is that normal?
  • truckinguy 110 Points
    I had a Monterra... returned it after 6 months..(only got Cabelas credit no reciept) because the bearing was off and it's a known problem.. no fix.. Garmin sent me a new one and that was off so off it went.. Got back to my Montana 680. Which is right on... I did like the Monterra alot.. screen wise and menu options..
    Make sure you have it updated.. do it via the wireless as that seemed to be better but if that doesn't fix it then return it because of Bearing issue.. I had the writer of this review named Dan Townsley tell me about the known issue with it.

    globeriders.com/article_pages/article06_gps/article06_monterra.shtml

  • Boyd 1794 Points
    Since it's Android, you could try another app like OruxMaps or BackCountry Navigator and see if it has the same issue or if it's a problem with Garmin's software.

  • Chris_Sav 59 Points
    edited March 20
    Thanks,

    Have heard back from Dan Townsley who does not think the map problem is related to my comments on the compass.

    I normally used TalkyToaster maps on my Montana before it was stolen and was using a different OSM map yesterday which seemed to route better. I'll install the TalkyToaster maps and see if it does it with them if the weather breaks later.

    The only other thing I'd noticed is that the position seems to wander a lot when at rest. My current speed is varying between 0 and 2 mph sitting on my desk.

    I'll then look at the other apps.

    Ebay seller has very decently offered a refund if all else fails, but I'll try and discover the problem first.
  • privet01 145 Points
    I put this comment in the wrong thread yesterday, you all probably saw it anyway though.......

    On my devices, they do say you have to hold the device level to get an accurate reading with the compass. So that kind of nixes some of what I said previously.

    My gpsMap76CSx pretty much does what your video shows. Essentially its behaving much like a compass that's not gimbaled.
  • Boyd 1794 Points
    privet01 said:

    On my devices, they do say you have to hold the device level to get an accurate reading with the compass.

    Modern triaxial compasses don't require you to hold them horizontally and Garmin switched to these a number of years ago. My Montana 600 has a triaxial compass for example that is also used to automatically switch the display from landscape to portrait mode when you flip it.
  • Chris_Sav 59 Points
    So are we saying that it should not flip bearing when rotated with the same end kept pointing North?
  • Boyd 1794 Points
    edited March 20
    Not sure if I understand what "we" are saying. ;) But I just took my Montana 600 outside and calibrated the compass. This involves three steps to calibrate it on each axis; first you slowly rotate the device while holdig it flat, then you slowly rotate sideways and finally rotate it top to bottom. I assume this is the same on the Monterra?

    After doing this, I can hold the Montana vertical and turn my body until it indicates I'm facing North. I can then raise the GPS to the vertical position (portrait mode) or flip it to landscape mode and the compass continues to indicate I am facing North. There was some small variation, but it was pretty close. I should note that I tried this same thing before calibrating the compass and there was a large variation in North depending on which way I held the device. So calibration matters.

    I have always been impressed by how well the track-up mode works on my Montana. I think you also had one of the original Montana series (650?) at one time. Did you have these kinds of problems with it?
  • Chris_Sav 59 Points
    Hi again,

    650t was brilliant until some scrote pinched it. Subsequently 276CX was useless and 680T had the USB lock-up problem, both went back.

    Regarding the Monterra which I quite like the look of, I calibrated the compass in the open in all three directions and then took the video. With the compass displayed (not calibrating now) point the Monterra North along the long dimension and then keeping the 'sharp end' pointing North, slowly rotate through ninety degrees. North becomes South and South becomes North.
    https://youtu.be/lz5xYLZwW0M
    Hope I've explained it better.
  • Boyd 1794 Points
    edited March 20
    It's a bit hard to understand that video because it appears you may have changed position slightly while rotating and also the screen is overexposed to the point of appearing blank at times. Aside from that, I don't think you should expect the compass to work correctly inside the house next to other electronic equipment. My Montana was erratic when I tried that, so I went out in the open and did the tests I described above.

    But my point is that you had a Montana that worked correctly so if the Monterra doesn't do the same thing it should be obvious. If it were me, I would probably just get a refurb Montana 6xx since they are attractively priced. But then, if it were me, I would probably be thinking of that old saying I learned as a child, "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." And you are now at number three and counting. ;)

    Seriously though, it seems like you are going to have to accept some compromises in one area or another (battery life, screen size, user interface, compass function) if you want to stick with Garmin.
  • Chris_Sav 59 Points
    Cheers Boyd,

    Test was done in the open as well, more easy to video indoors in the dry!

    Took it a stage further and inverted the Monterra outdoors and North becomes South and vice -versa, was not expecting that after calibrating in all three axes. Could you see if your Montana compass does the same please?

    Don't mind compromises, just want a Garmin GPS unit that works!


  • Boyd 1794 Points
    Sorry, don't have time to recalibrate and test now.
  • truckinguy 110 Points
    you should of kept the 680.. The Monterra is dropped and forgotten... besides being expensive... they have fixed the issue on the 680.. ... I find it performs better then the Monterra.. but like I said the Monterra had a great screen and loved the android app menu setup..
    And I will be getting a 276cx this fall.. for snowmobiling... many fixes out now for it and the folks who use it off road love it.. My Montana will be for hiking only.
    Boyd it was Garmin's issue.. not an android issue.. known bearings to a waypoint from a position known were off all the time no matter what was set.. by 15 deg...couldn't believe it.. but it is what it is.. my 680 has been flawless.. better still the usb issue is resolved..
  • Chris_Sav 59 Points
    There was no point in keeping the Montana as it was not recognised as a USB device and thus could not update it with any fix, it had to go back.
  • truckinguy 110 Points
    Swell so now your stuck with an obsolete Monterra that doesn't navigate right and never will. Maybe the new 680 fix would do it.. for you.. I have win 7 on a Dell laptop and have no problems with usb.. and again the latest fix takes care of it not shutting down after usb connection.. so all is good.. my wifes Oregon 700 is awesome.. you can update that with wifi on it. and it nav's the exact same way the 680 does.. nice glass touch screen and functions..
  • Chris_Sav 59 Points
    edited March 21
    Yup, not been my year with Garmin GPS'ers!!

    Refurbed Monterra was only ever to be a cheap stop gap until the 680T got fixed or preferably the 276CX became the 276CXI
  • Chris_Sav 59 Points
    Would still appreciate an opinion on my Monterra

    Left it sitting by the window for a couple of hours and the track did 16 miles

    image
  • Boyd 1794 Points
    edited March 22
    Sorry Chris, I don't quite understand what you need here. You have owned a Montana 650 and a Montana 680 so you should already know how they behave. Don't you remember? Well anyway, I went outside again to a spot with a good sky view and calibrated the compass on my Montana 600.

    The compass correctly showed north when I held the device flat and when I raised it to portrait mode. When I turned it to landscape mode (with the power button facing the ground) it also showed north correctly. I then rotated it in landscape mode so that the power button was facing the sky. North was still correct.

    If I rotate it in portrait mode so that the lanyard slot is facing the sky, then it does not show North correctly. But everything on the screen is upside down when you do this, so I don't know why you would care because it's clearly not intended to be used this way.

    Regarding the track… again, I think testing the GPS inside your house (window or not) is meaningless. The Montana can "wander" significantly however, here is a test I did in conjunction with a review I wrote several years ago. I left the Montana sit stationary with a good sky view for 30 minutes recording one point per second and this is what I got. I don't know what this would add up to, but it's not as extreme as your example.

    @truckinguy made several posts here when he got his Monterra stating he was especially impresssed with track recording and that it was much cleaner than his Montana.

    image
  • Chris_Sav 59 Points
    Thanks,

    I don't want to go chasing the seller unless I am absolutely certain the Monterra is defective and I am not at this stage.

    I don't remember the Montana wandering when stationary anything like this, The tracking was not 100% clean but the Montana did not wander several hundred feet out of position.

    Re the compass, calibrating it in all three axes I'm expecting the compass to work no matter what the orientation, certainly not a complete flip of North pointing South. Using it on a motorcycle means that it is going to get tilted.

    I'm happy to try whatever tests you suggest as many on here will have far more experience of what is normal with the Monterra than me.

    I've not been able to repeat the map spinning test today as it has not stopped raining and I cant risk taking the camera on the bike in the wet.

    I'll repeat the tracking test in the morning outside of the house and see how much it wanders, but am very tied up from lunchtime tomorrow until Sunday evening.

    Appreciate your help

    Chris
  • Boyd 1794 Points
    edited March 22
    Every GPS wanders to some extent and I don't think my test shows anything unusual for 1800 recorded points over 30 minutes. Here's the same test with my GPSMap 60csx which many people still feel is one of the best devices Garmin ever made.

    image

    The Garmin GLO (bluetooth receiver) was especially impressive however. Look how tight this pattern is, most of the points are right on top of each other. Hard to believe there are also 1800 points here.

    image

  • truckinguy 110 Points
    edited March 22
    Boyd my Monterra was better then my Montana 600.. is what I probably meant due to Glonass in the Monterra. I did like the Monterra's functions,screen and reception but when I found the bearing issue and tried every method to fix it I contacted Garmin..they sent me a another one and it did the same.. After talking to Dan Townsley I returned it for a 680.
    And I agree the track will be off alot due to not having a clear sky in his case.
    Whether it be the Andriod combo on the Monterra to create the off bearing of 15 deg or Garmins improper build it is not a device I would trust for navigating.. I would return it and go back to the 680 as this has proven to be a solid unit for me.. It gives the same exact info as my wifes Oregon 700 on long hikes and bearing to a known waypoint is spot on.. tested with a hand held compass and same methods as I did on the Monterra.
  • Chris_Sav 59 Points
    OK guys, something a bit more definitive! Repeated the tracking test outside and worked fine with no wandering so that was a red herring on my part - sorry!

    Weather better so went out to try and get some film of the Monterra map gyrating on the motorcycle, put the Monterra in the cradle and all was OK, started the engine an did not even have to leave the drive as you can see below.

    https://youtu.be/1gSGeOSZjjg

    Watch particularly at the end for a full 360 spin, it must be something suspect under vibration, did hundreds pf miles with the Montana on this and a rigid framed bike without problem!

    Sorry to have led you up a garden path Boyd but I hope this shows the problem more concisely.

    Chris
  • Tim 1465 Points
    Just like the wind, some days I get lots of drift, sometimes none at all. :)
  • Boyd 1794 Points
    Perhaps RFI problem from the motorcycle ignition? Does it do the same thing on a bicycle? But geez… just get a refurb Montana 650 and be happy.
  • truckinguy 110 Points
    My Monterra never did that hiking at all for many months I used it... Never had a chance to put it on my snowmachine...
  • Chris_Sav 59 Points
    Boyd said:

    Perhaps RFI problem from the motorcycle ignition? Does it do the same thing on a bicycle? But geez… just get a refurb Montana 650 and be happy.

    Thanks guys, I have now instigated a return request, but just wanted to be fair to the seller that my Monterra was not working as Monterras belonging to others.

    Shame. I don't use a smart phone so there were functions on the Monterra that would have been useful.
  • truckinguy 110 Points
    Get the 680.. I used it yesterday on my snowmachine and no map spinning.. this unit has worked flawlessly for quite awhile.. very impressed with it between glonass and the updates for it...
  • Chris_Sav 59 Points
    Cheers, would prefer the 276CX with the bigger screen and longer battery life but that needs a hardware upgrade, at least it looks like the 680.. was just a software fix. Seems the way to go.
  • truckinguy 110 Points
    I'm getting the 276cx in the fall most definitely.. hopefully some prices will be down or refurbished available.. I want it for my snowmachine.. a hard care Baha rider loves it. He gave a great report on it on his 1000 mile trip up the peninsula at Dan Townsley's site.. others who used it in cities for navigating didn't care for the redraw but that rider loved it for his off road use which is my use for it..snowmobileing. I have an issue with the Montana's during the daylight on brighter days.. screen away from the sun.. hard to read or see the tracks I'm following. In the sun fine..I'll get the 276cx a try to see if it shows better in those conditions.. I wish it was a bit smaller but what the heck..
  • Chris_Sav 59 Points
    Hi,

    Take a look at
    advrider.com/index.php?threads/garmin-announces-the-new-gpsmap-276cx.1178312/page-50

    That shows just how useless I found the 276CX was. That BahaRider appears to be one of those who just thinks it's wonderful regardless of how the evidence stacks up against it and tries to browbeat everyone else into his opinion.

    I'm waiting until there is a hardware improvement and then I'll jump at a 276CX. In the meantime the Monterra has gone back and I really appreciate the integrity of the seller as it turns out the Monterra came from a 'lost in post' sale and he was honest enough to admit it and accept a return.

    Brand new 680T arrives tomorrow, just hope the thing is recognised by my P.C.!!
  • truckinguy 110 Points
    For his use it works fine.. guess if your using it for city navigating and routing it is slow.. I would use it like he did ..off road... no routing.. just tack following and recording,etc.
  • Boyd 1794 Points
    Interesting that they sell a version with lifetime City Navigator maps. https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/539722/pn/010-01607-05

    I guess nobody would want to use it in the city though, and anyway it only costs $800 so what do you expect? :D
  • Chris_Sav 59 Points
    Backtracking on the Monterra, I have tried a couple of the tests of the three point compass on the new 680T I have received and there does appear to be a bug which may also apply to my tests on the Monterra. Calibrate the compass and invert the 680T in recreational profile and North correctly points North, Calibrate and invert the compass in automotive profile and North points South - strange one!

  • truckinguy 110 Points
    Chris_Sav said:

    Backtracking on the Monterra, I have tried a couple of the tests of the three point compass on the new 680T I have received and there does appear to be a bug which may also apply to my tests on the Monterra. Calibrate the compass and invert the 680T in recreational profile and North correctly points North, Calibrate and invert the compass in automotive profile and North points South - strange one!

    You don't seem to have luck with gps's.. check all the settings... the compass one's are very complex.. depending on the setup and use.

    Also it seems a poster this week on the 276cx thread said he has no issue riding around the cities navigating with it.. he leaves the next turn pop off set to off. So this is a fix Garmin might be able to do.

    A poster there said Garmin should rid of the "fluff" .he's right..focus on navigating.. bluetooth,weather links,etc make a complex unit much more complex.. these people who what that "fluff" get what they deserve in these units.. it takes a long time to work out the bugs..

    I don't think $800 is a lot of money at all for that unit.. rugged and will navigate better then any app for phones out there in the long run ... phones,tablets cost the same are flimsy and are thrown away in a year if they make it that far...the 276cx will be around for many many years after any Iphone of 2017.
  • Chris_Sav 59 Points
    Nope I seem to be jinxed at the mo. My new bombproof Ruggear phone has just bricked with a problem they have never seen before that causes it to reboot. That too has just gone back!!
  • truckinguy 110 Points
    We'll see what Garmin does
    Boyd said:

    Interesting that they sell a version with lifetime City Navigator maps. https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/539722/pn/010-01607-05

    I guess nobody would want to use it in the city though, and anyway it only costs $800 so what do you expect? :D

    Seems one of those guys posted this week he has no issues moving fast around the cities with the pop up turn off.. so this may be a software fix Garmin can come up with..

    It's like one of them said ..Garmin should do away with the fluff.. weather..blue tooth etc and focus on just navigating...these guys looking for all the fluff and want a complex navigating unit in a small rugged size are asking for trouble.. $800 isn't alot of money to me for actually for a unit like the 276CX.. compared to tablets phones etc which are very cheaply made and are thrown out in a year ..
  • truckinguy 110 Points
    sorry about the multible postings.. had issues trying to post this early am.. must of been traffic or server issues..
  • Tim 1465 Points
    They actually got tripped up in our spam filter. A notice does appear indicating that... but it flashes by and many people don't see it.
  • truckinguy 110 Points
    Tim said:

    They actually got tripped up in our spam filter. A notice does appear indicating that... but it flashes by and many people don't see it.

    Why can't I delete ?
  • Tim 1465 Points
    At one point we offered that option and people abused it. People would come in, ask a question or participate in a thread, then when their question was answered they would delete all of their posts. It made reading threads really confusing when there was missing information. This happened far more often than I would have imagined, so we just decided to remove that ability.

    But if you flag your own posts (just like you did) I'm happy to delete things when it makes sense..
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