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more bugs? [HP]

patruns 10 Points
I have found 3 more issues, and I have the latest updates installed.

1.) When you choose to route to a location and then make that the starting point and click on the yes button to disable navigation from the current location you can view a 3d view of that area. (I chose a street in Manhattan because I wanted to look at the 3d renderings of the buildings.) But sometimes, the map of the current location comes up anyway. It doesn't matter what location you chose. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not.

2.) I chose to route to a contact in midtown Manhattan and chose it as the start. (Similiar to above.) It maps to 230th in the Bronx even though the contact info is correct. Note, non Manhattan contacts show the correct map. I believe the problem is with Manhattan addresses. While I have the contact listed as living at 230 E 44th st in Manhattan, it wants to route to E 230th st in the Bronx.

3.) I wanted to route to a POI and searched by name (United Nations). When I try and scroll the list a small window pops up saying out of memory. Then the unit freezes on that screen and I have to reboot.

Anyone else have similiar issues or others? Especially with addresses in Manhattan?

Comments

  • infama 0 Points
    For point 3...how much memory do you have left after the update?
  • gatorguy 325 Points
    Infama, didn't we determine quite awhile back that the Manhattan address issue was likely due to the TeleAtlas map?
  • infama 0 Points
    Infama, didn't we determine quite awhile back that the Manhattan address issue was likely due to the TeleAtlas map?
    TT did have some issues in Manhatten, eg Federal Plaza, as I recall.
    POIs had the correct addy, but only the main roads showed up, like Duane Street. Fed Plaza is a cul de sac off Duane Street.
  • patruns 10 Points
    Infama, didn't we determine quite awhile back that the Manhattan address issue was likely due to the TeleAtlas map?
    Actually, it will route correctly to a Manhattan address if I input the address. The problem seems to be with using the contacts list for Manhattan addresses. Not really a mapping problem that I would blame on TeleAtlas. The software does not appear to be reading the contact address correctly. I tried it with several addresses both from the contact list and via direct input.

    It's a bug! :cry:
  • patruns 10 Points
    For point 3...how much memory do you have left after the update?
    I have over 200MB left. I think the 12mil POI list just strains the unit too much. I also note I can only search for a POI around the GPS or from a map point. The other boxes for quick search, etc are greyed out.
  • patruns 10 Points
    I think the unit ignores the zip code when routing from the contact list as well or we would not have some of these issues. I work at 75 Broad St in Manhattan and I added that to the list but the unit wants to route me to 75 Broad St in Staten Island, which is a different zip code. When I actually route to that address instead of using the contact entry the unit lets me choose which zip code I want.
  • gatorguy 325 Points
    The zipcode is embedded in the map. As I referred to earlier, and Infama remebers about the same, there are some addy issues, which include zip codes, in Manhattan
  • infama 0 Points
    For point 3...how much memory do you have left after the update?


    I have over 200MB left. I think the 12mil POI list just strains the unit too much. I also note I can only search for a POI around the GPS or from a map point. The other boxes for quick search, etc are greyed out.

    Quick search is for previously routed POIs, a shortcut.

    If the Titan is having probs with 12m Pois, then I shudder to think how lesser powered chipsets would fare!
  • marditti 0 Points
    The iPAQ 310 has major zip code errors in the Los Angeles area. At my home, the unit generates a zip codes which is 2- 3 miles to the north. When I enter my home address manually as a route start point, the unit enters the same wrong zip code 2 - 3 miles away. At another location the unit generated a zip code which is approximately 20 miles to the south. I tried 8 different locations in the Los Angeles area, the iPAQ 310 generated 7 wrong street addresses and 6 wrong zip codes.
    I tried 3 competitive units by entering my address and all the zip codes were correct.
    It appears that the map(s) in the iPAQ 310 maps and possibly the calculations have major accuracy issues. Tech support is unable to help with these issues.
    Does anyone know if HP doing anything about these errors?
  • Tim 1470 Points
    HP can't do anything about the errors as it isn't their map.
  • patruns 10 Points
    What happens when you enter the zip code as the destination? Is it correct then? Also, the unit has "issues" when routing to a major city address from the contact list. It seems when you route to an address in the contact list that the unit disregards the zip code and just picks the first match that it finds. It routes fine when you manually enter the address. I have reported that problem.
  • marditti 0 Points
    It is true that the map is nnot HP's. However, the HP name is on the product and they are ultimately responsible. Furthermore, they should have verified that they are purchasing and using an accurate map. Competitors, such as Garmin also use a third party maps and they are correct.
    If you go to the grocery store and purchase a product under the store's brand name, the store is responsible for the product, not the source who made it. The store can and should deal with the producers of the product.
    Last but not least, HP under the leadership of its founders was an extremely customer oriented company and stood behind the product. Now, HP should at least admit that there are accuracy problems and inform the users of this fact. I had extensive communication with HP and they have not done so. Unfortunately, under the present day management they are hiding the problem.
  • Tim 1470 Points
    ICompetitors, such as Garmin also use a third party maps and they are correct.
    No map is 100% correct.... not even close, nor will a map ever be. I hear just as many people with the exact opposite story as yours... they purchase a Garmin or Magellan, find some major inaccuracies in their area, trade in for a TomTom or HP, and are more satisfied with the new product.

    Neither of you are "wrong", but maps will never be 100% correct regardless of where they come from.
  • marditti 0 Points
    I have not tried to enter any destinations yet. Unfortunately, for the past several weeks I have been 'fighting' with HP about their incompetent staff who are supposed to provide customer care. It is nearly a month now and the HP computer system does not allow me to register my unit. Tech support, on-line chat, phone calls to customer relations, letters (via USPS) and emails to the CEO, none of these have solved the problem. The on-line chat informed me that I am unable to register the product because "the system is down". This was approximately 3 weeks ago and the system appears to be down to this day. Tech support does not what to do and customer relations said that they are not supposed to solve these problems. If I can not register the unit, I will not be able to dowload updates. Is this a responsible action by HP? I say no!
  • marditti 0 Points
    Agree that no map is 100% accurate or correct. I can only report based on my experience. I have 2 Garmin GPS units, not the same category as the iPAQ 310. Both are very accurate, the errors are in 20 - 50 feet. A Delorme unit that attaches to my laptop also has similar error. These errors are acceptable. On the other hand the iPAQ 310 has street error of 500 - 700 feet and zip code errors as much as 20 miles.
    My 'unsceintific' tests of show that of 8 street addresses and zip codes tests, the iPAQ has 100% error rate. None of the genaretd data was totally correct. At my home, the street address error is approximately 600 feet and the zip code error is 2 - 3 miles north of actual. At another location in the Los Angeles area, the street address is 100% correct and the zip code is approximately 20 miles south of the atual location. I use the USPS zip code locator for these comparisons.
  • Uncle Ben 0 Points
    I have not tried to enter any destinations yet. Unfortunately, for the past several weeks I have been 'fighting' with HP about their incompetent staff who are supposed to provide customer care. It is nearly a month now and the HP computer system does not allow me to register my unit. Tech support, on-line chat, phone calls to customer relations, letters (via USPS) and emails to the CEO, none of these have solved the problem. The on-line chat informed me that I am unable to register the product because "the system is down". This was approximately 3 weeks ago and the system appears to be down to this day. Tech support does not what to do and customer relations said that they are not supposed to solve these problems. If I can not register the unit, I will not be able to dowload updates. Is this a responsible action by HP? I say no!
    Well, all I can say to this is that my experience has been the complete opposite. I bought my 310 back in late Novemer 2007, I have had to deal with HP Customer Service, including the on-line live chat, a number of times; and have received excellent service every single time. As the saying goes, it's the door that squeaks that gets the oil ... but then again, too much oil and you may wind up on slippery grounds! :lol: I have no complaints whatsoever about the 310's accuracy; but yes, I have had a few complaints with map inaccuracies, which I have communicated to TeleAtlas, hoping that in seven years or so, they will be corrected! :wink: Personally, given the amount of data these mapping companies have to deal with, the gizzillions changes that take place on a daily basis, I think that they're doing a fantastic job FOR THE PRICE!
  • patruns 10 Points
    I have not tried to enter any destinations yet. Unfortunately, for the past several weeks I have been 'fighting' with HP about their incompetent staff who are supposed to provide customer care. It is nearly a month now and the HP computer system does not allow me to register my unit. Tech support, on-line chat, phone calls to customer relations, letters (via USPS) and emails to the CEO, none of these have solved the problem. The on-line chat informed me that I am unable to register the product because "the system is down". This was approximately 3 weeks ago and the system appears to be down to this day. Tech support does not what to do and customer relations said that they are not supposed to solve these problems. If I can not register the unit, I will not be able to dowload updates. Is this a responsible action by HP? I say no!


    Well, all I can say to this is that my experience has been the complete opposite. I bought my 310 back in late Novemer 2007, I have had to deal with HP Customer Service, including the on-line live chat, a number of times; and have received excellent service every single time. As the saying goes, it's the door that squeaks that gets the oil ... but then again, too much oil and you may wind up on slippery grounds! :lol: I have no complaints whatsoever about the 310's accuracy; but yes, I have had a few complaints with map inaccuracies, which I have communicated to TeleAtlas, hoping that in seven years or so, they will be corrected! :wink: Personally, given the amount of data these mapping companies have to deal with, the gizzillions changes that take place on a daily basis, I think that they're doing a fantastic job FOR THE PRICE!
    Couldn't have said it better myself UB..... :wink:
  • marditti 0 Points
    Uncle Ben,

    Thank you for the comments relative to the good HP experience. I wish I can say the same.

    First, I tried to register my iPAQ 310 and the HP computer rejected my ID. Here is an exact copy of the on-line chat response from HP after I complained that the HP system is rejecting my ID: “I agree with you on there should be something stating the system is down but I can't change the system. It's giving you that error because the system is encountering problems. I do apologize”. This is exact quote from the chat, I saved it. Now over three weeks later the system still refuses to accept my ID. Is the system still down?

    Second, I do not know where the folks who are happy with the accuracy of the iPAQ 310 are located. I am in Los Angeles, California. It is entirely possible that some maps are better than others. Unfortunately HP is mum on the subject. In one case, the zip code generated by the iPAQ 310 was approximately 20 miles away from the actual location. If you look through this site, you will find another posting related to inaccuracy in the Los Angeles area. I do not know the answer to the accuracy issue and so far it appears that they are not talking.

    Third, a reputable company does stand behind its product. In the mid 70 ies, (I know I am aging myself) while the late Mr. William Hewlett was the company president, HP discovered that in one of their hand held calculators (I think it was the HP 45), one of the trigonometric function had a very tiny error, insignificant error. HP responded very quickly and had full recall to correct the problem, which they did. At about the same time frame, an instrument had a moisture problem with one integrated circuit. HP addressed the problem quickly and fixed the problem immediately. In both of these examples HP responded quickly and responsibly and the customers were not charged. The old HP acknowledged problems and corrected them. So far the present HP has not acknowledged any accuracy problem with the map and is ignoring it. One tech support person solution was to send the unit back.

    Fourth, there is no question that it is a major effort to create a good and detailed electronic map. However another GPS manufacturer is using accurate maps (also not their own creation), so it is possible to create them. Also, it is possible that the error is the result of internal calculations in the iPAQ 310. When the unit calculates a position, it may be recalling wrong data from the maps look up details. I do not know what is wrong, but the zip code errors are significant. Ultimately, it is HP’s responsibility to make sure that the maps they buy are correct. In addition they can admit that there are map errors and provide updated maps for download or on CD with detailed installation instructions. This is not the case here. If it was only the street error being several hundred feet, I may say it is close enough. But a zip code 2 – 3 or 20 miles away is a major error.

    Fifth, it is true that the squeaky wheel get the grease. In my case, the wheel is very unstable and I would like the wheel fixed before it gets any grease.

    In any case, thank you and all others who replied.
  • Tim 1470 Points
    Why are you driving to a zip code instead of to a city/street address? (Just curious, not criticizing.) I had the iPAQ in LA the past couple of weeks, don't know my way around, and the iPAQ worked flawlessly for the locations I used (LAX, my hotel in Brentwood, office, and a couple of restaurants).
  • marditti 0 Points
    Tim,
    Thank you for the question. No I am not driving to a zip, rather I used the zip to clearly show the errors in the iPAQ 310. For your clarification here is some history of my ‘adventures’ with the 310.
    The issue developed when I first turn ON the brand new, out of the box unit in my driveway. First, I charged it. After it some wait for it to find the location, it surprised me with a wrong street address, approximately 600 feet error and very wrong zip code approximately 2 – 3 miles due north. The zip code error is what started the whole accuracy thing. Following that, I did some other address accuracy tests and all had wrong details. In one case, the zip code was approximately 20 miles away due south. I did compare the 310 with two other GPS units, looking at the coordinates. The other units were in close agreement relative with the coordinates, and the 310 was somewhat different.
    Next I tried to register the unit, several times, and the HP system refused to accept my ID every time. Tech support was clueless why and suggested I post the issue on the HP ‘FEEDBACK’ section and told me that it may three days for a response. I did log on and posted the issue on the ‘FEEDBACK’ section. No one ever replied. Also, I went on to the on-line chat to find out why I am unable to register. The HP person wrote to me that their system is down. It appears that the HP system is still down since now, over three weeks later I am unable to register. I did 'copy and paste' and save the entire on-line chat session.
    Early in the registration effort, I connected the iPAQ310 to my computer to see if the Content Manager can ‘see’ what is in the 310. The program came up with a message that it can not find the unit, but the unit screen froze in the transfer mode (blue screen and two arrows) and the only way out was to disconnect and reset the unit. I tried several time with the same ‘frozen results’. Subsequent calls, long wait ‘on hold’ and transfers from one person to another, finally a person in Georgia told me that the iPAQ 310 must be returned for ‘hard reset’ at the factory. At that point I had wasted 4 -5 hours and no one at HP seemed to care or be able to help. After talking to people with heavy foreign unintelligible accent who had no clue what to do, I had my fill of this lack of efficient response and incompetence. At point, an HP representative offered to replace the unit with an upgraded unit, the iPAQ 510. While on the phone, I logged on to the HP web site and looked at the 510. The 510 was a ‘communication device’ not GPS. The HP person refused to accept that the ‘upgrade’ offer is senseless. I was give the option to choose, 310 or 510. Clearly that person had no idea what is going on. This is when I decided to elevate the situation to the HP CEO and expose this mess and started posting here.
    Later on today I am supposed to talk to a Customer Relation person in an attempt to resolve this entire situation.

    The address inaccuracies and the major zip codes errors are very definitive details that can captured as facts. For the record I did tabulate eight of these details on an Excel sheet and forwarded them to HP.

    I hope that this gives you a better idea about what is going on and where I stand. Am I angry, you bet.
    PS. If you wish, I will be gald to send you a copy of the Excel file. Please let me know where to send it.
  • patruns 10 Points
    One tech support person solution was to send the unit back.
    Why not take them up on this? It seems to be your best option. They sent me an empty box with a return label the next day. I packed the unit and dropped it off at a DHL box. (I could have called and arranged pick up.) I had the unit back within 5 business days. All was at no charge & the software was fully updated.
  • marditti 0 Points
    I did send the unit back. This is when they offered the upgrade to the iPAQ 510 which is not a GPS device. They did send a new iPAQ 310 which I still could not register and the zip code errors were about the same as the first unit.
    I am sorry, I should have been clearer on this. The major 'conflicts' started with HP started after I received the second iPAQ 310 and I did all address data tabulation..
  • marditti 0 Points
    Tim,

    Earlier today I informed you that later in the day I will be talking to HP about the problems. The short update to is that nothing was accomplished. I talked to customer relations. He did not offer any solutions to the HP denying my registration ID or accuracy. The only thing that he promised is to try and find someone at HP who knows anything about registration. He suggested that I wait until their system is fixed, who knows when. We agreed that I will be informed if the customer relation person did find such an HP ‘expert’. Later on he sent me an email indicating that he has sent an email to the ‘Registration agent’ and that the customer relation person will be out for the rest of the week. Based on this, I do not expect anything to happen till next week – if than. Relative to the inaccuracy issues, he had no clue what is going on not did he suggest any possible solution.
    My take about this is that the iPAQ310 accuracy or lack thereof, at least in the Los Angeles area is a inherit problem and HP is avoiding it like a plague. They shun addressing the issue because there ate problems and they do not have a solution. The real issue now is HP’s treachery on this matter.
    As far as I am concerned, the conflict is still ON and I will do my best to spread the truth about HP’s dishonest practices. They earned and deserve all the bad publicity they get.

    Mort
  • Tim 1470 Points
    Tim,

    Earlier today I informed you that later in the day I will be talking to HP about the problems.
    I'm not certain I even follow what you are doing with zipcodes, so unfortunately there isn't much I can do to help. When I use GPS devices I don't use zipcodes.
  • marditti 0 Points
    Tim,

    Thank you for the reply and suggesting help.
    I may not have been explisit enough. The zip codes came into play when I first the unit ON and it showed my home zip code being wrong. Additional test at a total of 8 locations, the iPAQ310 found only one correct zip code. The other seven were wrong, one very wrong 20 miles away. This alerted me to the accuracy issue. I use the zip code issue in support of the errors with street address details. HP is absolutely refusing to respond in any to any issues related to accuarcy. If they do respond and ecplain the situation it will be fine, but they ignore the accuracy matter. This is how I got involved with the zip code. Basically, I want an answer about accuracy from HP and they refuse to provide it.

    Mort
  • Tim 1470 Points
    I guess what I don't understand is why the zipcode is so important to your application. Do you have a list of streets, street numbers, and zipcodes that you navigate to? If so, then I understand the issue. Otherwise, I almost never use a zipcode as an address entry method-- so I wouldn't notice if a GPS had the zipcodes correct or not. The HP could very well even have my own zipcode wrong-- but I wouldn't know it as I'd never enter it even though I use it as a destination.

    Growing up in rural New England gave me an appreciation of just how strange the zipcode system is. Most people realize that larger cities typically have more than one zipcode. But did you know that there are many rural towns that share their zipcode with neighboring towns?

    We also have the misfortune of having zipcodes that start with a zero. So many computer programs forget that oddity and will drop the leading zero and then give an error that your zipcode doesn't have enough characters. One page on the AP's website asks for a zipcode and does that resulting in errors that say any zipcode for New England doesn't exist.

    The maps are plagued with errors-- no doubt about that. I find them all the time with every GPS I've used. But I'd save yourself as much frustration as you can and take the issue to those directly responsible, Tele Atlas in this case. You can report the issue to them at mapinsight.teleatlas.com.

    Sure you purchased the device from HP and they are "responsible" for the device. But it will be a dead end. It would be like complaining about a particular television show to your cable company-- they will just tell you to contact the TV station/network directly. You could complain to the company that makes your cell phone that your coverage is poor, but they will tell you to contact your carrier.

    That is probably why HP is giving you the run-around while most other people that have dealt with support have had great experiences. Yours is an issue that they can't directly solve-- unfortunately.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't be frustrated, but your expectations don't quite match what will realistically happen. Again, I'm not saying you should be satisfied... but hopefully now you will be armed with a little more info.
  • marditti 0 Points
    Tim,

    Again thank you for your reply. I greatly appreciate the time you have taken to respond to my issue and clash. I feel guilty for the time you have spent responding to my comments. Really, this is my conflict with HP. It is only fair that you should know about me that I am very much a detail person and like to do things right.

    The zip code is only important to the extend that it supports, numerically, my argument that the displayed address, zip code and to some extend the maps are inaccurate and possibly may generate navigation error. I live a big (to big) city, Los Angeles, where we have many zip codes in the same city. The HP iPAQ310 does not generate or provide accurate information, particularly zip codes and HP is outright dishonest by concealing these facts! I do remember and possibly am ‘spoiled’ by the original HP which I mentioned in a previous post. Under the leadership of the late Messrs Hewlett and Packard, HP stood behind their product 100% and customer care was second to none. I had personal experience with that great company policy. Regrettably, the present day HP is just another company with a policy of sell the product and damn the customer – this too is based on personal experience with another product! Now HP ignores the customers unless they complain vigorously. If you buy an HP (or some others) laptop with preinstalled software probably you will not get the software discs. HP’s explanation is that they provide a ‘recovery partition’ on the hard drive. However HP completely fails to mention this fact in the product description. When the hard drive fails (it is a matter of time), the recovery partition is also lost. I confronted HP on this issue when I purchased my laptop, their response was you have warranty and you can make back up of the ‘recovery partition’. My response was what happens when the warranty expires. HP did not have a good answer, nor do they describe these little details in the product description or specification. I complained to the executive management and demanded all the discs and they did send them. Most people probably will accept this HP (and others) lame excuse, deception and will be stuck when the hard drive fails after the warranty. The present day HP is somewhat deceptive by hiding critical important details about the iPAQ310, namely poor accuracy.

    I have to disagree with you about who is responsible. Unfortunately, this day and age of complex high tech devices, pointing fingers is the rule. With cable TV, if you do not like a show you will not watch it again. If the cable provider has too many bad shows, you can cancel the service. The iPAQ310 is a HP is a purchased product and the compnay must stand behind its performance. What if the display becomes dim, do you complain to the display maker? What if the battery has lost capacity, where do you get a replacement? HP or the battery manufacturer? HP is responsible for the entire delivered product. The map’s creator will not talk to me because I am not their customer. What if the may is a custom product according to HP’s specification? Also, it is entirely possible that errors may be related and/or caused by problem firmware and algorithms inside the iPAQ. This in turn may display wrong map details. This is why I firmly believe that HP’s has the sole responsibility to deliver a good product and stand behind all the problems, including map accuracy. With cable TV you can cancel the service. True, one can return the iPAQ and try to get back a refund. However, some stores may charge re-stocking fees and one may have the addition expense for the additional travel and/or shipping costs. Besides, for me it is almost one month since HP started giving me the run around. I have wasted/invested too many hours in my effort to obtain corrective action from HP. If I give up now, HP shady policies would prevail and bad customer service wins and becomes the norm. I have lost considerable amount of time. I think that it is appropriate and fair to expose this major flaw with HP’s deficient product support. If I lost so much time, it is only fair for HP to loose reputation – they earned it! The most unfortunate part is that this horrible bad policies have been created by HP’s executive management and than they place the burden on customer service employees to encounter the irate consumers (me). This is the reason, for my elevating this entire situation to HP’s CEO. The ivory tower executive managers must be held responsible for their corrupt decisions and self serving policies. I have been documenting and informing HP’s CEO, Mr. Hurd of all the details, lots of hot air by the support staff and lack of results. I have very little or no expectation that Mr. Hurd will ever see any of my emails and letters, but, possibly it may alert some other ivory tower bureaucrats and they may see the light. I have no doubt that this specific situation has cost HP significant amount of time and money which they probably will charge to overhead.

    I have significant determination when it comes to these situations and intend to pursue this further. I loose time and HP looses reputation. In fact just a little while ago I did sent another update email to Mr. Hurd. I think that in a way my actions may alert some prospective future iPAQ310 users to look around and consider all the options. If this does hit HP in their pockets, they may change their ways. Very soon, I will write to Consumer Reports, J. D Power, BBB and more.

    Tim, please accept my sincere appreciation for your comments, inputs, clarifications and most of all your time.
  • Uncle Ben 0 Points
    edited July 2008
    Can't wait for Tome III! :P

    Sorry, Marditti, don't mean to be insensitive, but frankly, that's enough ranting now, don't you think. You're right, this is YOUR conflict with HP, so why not take your fight to them. As for your map issues, anyone who knows anything about GPS devices understand that map accuracy is the responsibility of the map providers; the same as when you buy a computer, from DELL or whoever, the computer manufacturer is NOT responsible for Microsoft's snafus. When you call their customer service and the problem is tied to an OS issue, they try to help you out, but only to a point - once it is determined that it is a software bug with the OS, they refer you to the one who wrote the program.

    End of story pal!

    Cheers!

    HappyTrails! HappyRants!
  • gatorguy 325 Points
    And to expand just a bit more on Uncle Ben's comments, assume for a moment that HP were to say to you "Yes, the map installed in your device is flawed." There is no map available that does not have flaws. Thus no way to "correct" your perceived issue. I guess you just want them to say it? Honestly, if the accuracy of the installed map is your only problem, then you have no problem that's not shared by every single owner of every gps from Garmin, TomTom, Magellan, Navigon, Mio, etc. You are going to remain one of those customers that cannot be satisfied.
  • infama 0 Points
    edited July 2008
    I am forced to agree with Uncle Ben.

    Mardetti is barking up the wrong tree.

    If he bought a laptop, and there is a bug with Windows (very common occurance), would he expect HP to fix it?

    HP builds the hardware for the GPS and buys software and maps from NavNgo, who buys the map dataset from TeleAtlas. Both NavnGo and TeleAtlas have customer feedback functions and their websites to highlight problems. If you have a hardware problem, HP will fix, for software, they must defer.

    While HP delivers the solution, they only know the hardware indepth. They dont have much detail knowledge about the Navigation software and next to nothing about the Map data set.

    If Mardetti does not like TeleAtlas map data, then he should buy a Navteq based machine, plain and simple. That is the limit of choice available, as these are the ONLY 2 global map providers!!! Now, we all need to be mindful that Navteq has its own issues in different regions, as can be seen by people making online complaints! Another point to bear in mind is that we need GPS for navigating to unfamiliar territory, so checking for accuracy in areas we know well may be a fool's errand. The "winner" in that case may be the mapset that performs poorly in unknown regions.

    Tim also did a 1,000 address lookup and Teleatlas actually outperformed Navteq on this limited but significant test.

    Besides, HP HAD to choose NavnGo and hence TeleAtlas, as they alone provide 3D building/Contour mapping even now! That is the primary innovation in this unit. 3D mapping with hardware to match. NO ONE else can provide this for the moment (closest will be Navigon 8000 series, and they wont have 3D buildings, just contour mapping). Clarion has the 3D maps, as did Mio, but their hardware was/is the limiting factor.

    HP sales are about the $100 billion dollar range annually. They would be fortunate to sell $50m of the iPaq 300s annually. That makes this a truly "bit" product for HP, less than one tenth of half a percent of HP sales. Clearly an incipient foray into the pure GPS device market. On top of that HP sells tons of other iPaqs and this product is the most different of the iPaqs, so yeah, I am not surprised that Customer Support is struggling with this. How will the GPS division command the budget, time and manpower resources to get adequate attention from the CS organization? Frankly, under the circumstances, they do a great job if you ask me.

    Yeah, HP can build that flawless GPS with very little errors and dedicated CS and all the bells and whistles of the Bill and Dave days, but who would be willing to pay $5,000 for such a GPS unit? Would Mardetti?

    For me, we have an incredible device for $200-300 that breaks ground in many areas.

    Finally, it is GROSSLY unfair to act as if HP is sitting on their rectus humungus and NOT addressing design flaws and other issues. This is the MOST improved machine compared to initial delivery out there.

    HP has recalled the first flawed Hardware batch. They have done 2 and a half software upgrades (for the 310) to boost performance and eliminate bugs. They have vastly improved the sloooowwwww upgrade process. They have delivered a new Update Process workaround for Content Manager. The 310 got reworked maps and reworked software, with corresponding major improvement in system stability, speed and voice performance. The other regions have gotten similar updates plus new map versions to boot. These are no small feats with HP having to work with NavNgo to get this done. You may not know, but NavNgo has recently released their own commercial version of this Navigation system and I am sure they gave priority to that!

    HP deserves a lot of kudos for what they have done so far. They have steadily improved a killer product and at least in North America have given stunning service guarantees. I can just imagine the costs of free 2-way DHL delivery for broken units and the no hassle repair/replacement policy. All this on a machine that cost many of us just $200!!

    I beg you, PLEASE BE REASONABLE!!!!!!
  • Tim 1470 Points
    The map’s creator will not talk to me because I am not their customer.
    That simply isn't true. The map's creator, Tele Atlas, goes out of their way to solicit feedback from end users. They have even gone so far as to respond privately to some members of this forum when they have found errors to gather additional feedback about the error. They are eager and willing to take reports at mapinsight.teleatlas.com

    While you say you can prove mapping inaccuracies based on the zipcode-- so what? I can show you inaccuracies in any GPS device on store shelves today, some for streets that have existed for decades.

    Based on the reasons you are unhappy with the maps on the HP, there is no GPS out there that you will be happy with.
  • marditti 0 Points
    To everyone who replied to my comments.

    Please accept my sincere thanks for all the comments about my postings. Although we disagree on some of the HP issue, I do respect everyone’s views and will end my postings on this subject and this forum. I will no longer post here any more of my views and comments related to the iPAQ 310. I will reserve my remarks for HP’s attention and send them to their attention.

    I can say that the situation would have been entirely different had HP confirmed that indeed there are accuracy issues, instead of completely avoiding the subject matter and refusing to respond impartially.

    In closing, if I have offended anyone in any way within this group, this was not my intent and please accepts my sincere apology.

    Again, thank you all for the comments.

    Mort
  • Tim 1470 Points
    I will no longer post here any more of my views and comments related to the iPAQ 310.
    I hope you don't think we are trying to drive you away. Everyone's comments are almost always welcome. Through disagreements like this is when all of us learn how others use the technology.
  • marditti 0 Points
    Tim,

    The comments did not drive me away. I should have been more detailed on with my last note. It will just redirected my comments to other locations.
    I relaize that my position has created to much contorversy among the memebrs of this Forum and there was no point 'creating more arguments'. We all are entitled to our views which makes the entire process healthy and educational. The Forum should be a place to exchange techical ideas and enhance our knowledge, not argue. I certainly did gain knowledge from this exchange which I do appreciate. As one of the guys said I was "barking up the wrong tree" (this forum) which is correct. My conflict is with HP and definetly not with anyone here. Therefore, I will continue to bark at the 'HP tree' and express my views at other public destinations.

    Thank you again for all the support.

    Mort
  • infama 0 Points
    To everyone who replied to my comments.

    Please accept my sincere thanks for all the comments about my postings. Although we disagree on some of the HP issue, I do respect everyone’s views and will end my postings on this subject and this forum. I will no longer post here any more of my views and comments related to the iPAQ 310. I will reserve my remarks for HP’s attention and send them to their attention.

    I can say that the situation would have been entirely different had HP confirmed that indeed there are accuracy issues, instead of completely avoiding the subject matter and refusing to respond impartially.

    In closing, if I have offended anyone in any way within this group, this was not my intent and please accepts my sincere apology.

    Again, thank you all for the comments.

    Mort
    Not offended in the least and I am puzzled why you would think so.

    I just think you are operating with a basic misunderstanding and I tried to set you straight.

    You did the right thing by coming here, as this is a good place to get basic education on GPS.

    Please understand that errors are understood in th GPS game, just as we KNOW there are bugs in software (especially MicroSoft). It is accepted as this is the current state of the art.

    There is nothing for HP to admit, it is just a given.
  • infama 0 Points
    Tim,

    The comments did not drive me away. I should have been more detailed on with my last note. It will just redirected my comments to other locations.
    I relaize that my position has created to much contorversy among the memebrs of this Forum and there was no point 'creating more arguments'. We all are entitled to our views which makes the entire process healthy and educational. The Forum should be a place to exchange techical ideas and enhance our knowledge, not argue. I certainly did gain knowledge from this exchange which I do appreciate. As one of the guys said I was "barking up the wrong tree" (this forum) which is correct. My conflict is with HP and definetly not with anyone here. Therefore, I will continue to bark at the 'HP tree' and express my views at other public destinations.

    Thank you again for all the support.

    Mort
    I said "barking up the wrong tree" and it seems you misunderstood me. Nothing to do with the Forum or your comments. I am glad you made them, so that the record could be set straight.

    My comment was directed at your going after HP about map erro. THAT is barking up the wrong tree. HP has ZERO influence here. Nada, zilch. The only thing HP could have done was to choose a Navteq supplier like Navigon who use Navteq. However, they dont have 3D mapping and Navigon software in kinda slow. They also have other shortcoming. There is always a compromise and HP chose their and presented it.

    To me, the zip code is like an extra and if its not the greatest, well then ignore it. The device has sooo many features that if one or 2 are not optimal, "so what" should be the response.

    Relax though, no one wants to chase you away. Really.
  • marditti 0 Points
    I am sorry about my error about "barking up the wrong tree".

    Be it as it may, I am not going away, there is no reason to do so. I just will not post my HP gripes here because it is not not the right place and I was wrong doing so. However, my views have not changed and I will continue my 'barking' at HP, but not on this forum.

    Mort
  • gatorguy 325 Points
    Marditti, we do this all the time, but in the end we all respect each others opinions whether we agree or not. Some of my posts have garnered pretty strong responses as well. Infama, Uncle Ben, TomJ and Tim don't hesitate to let me know when we don't see eye to eye. You know what? We all learn a lot more from posts we disagree with than the ones we do. Welcome to the forum.
  • marditti 0 Points
    gatorguy, Thank you for the note. Your are correct, such exchanges are educational and we all learn. This is my first participation in such a Forum and I am not familiar with the 'procedure'. This is reason why I thought that I may have offended someone. It appears that I probably have not which is good.

    Thank you again.

    Mort
  • Uncle Ben 0 Points
    Marditti - You certainly didn't offend me and I hope the feeling is mutual. If I did, then please accept one of our world-reknowned piping hot apple pie to cheer you up.

    Cheers!

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  • patruns 10 Points
    UB, where's my friggin' pie? :evil:


    :mrgreen:
  • marditti 0 Points
    Uncle Ben,

    Thank you for the note.
    No, I was not offended by you or anyone else here.
    I just wanted to make sure that I did not offend anyone on this Forum with my harsh 'attack' on HP. After all, some of the folks may and do have high respect for the company. I used to respect them as well, but this is dissipating rapidly. My views of the present HP have been on the decline before the the iPAQ310. It started with the purchase of some laptop computers (for friends and mysef) and poor support. Now, my respect for their customer NO support is rather very low.

    Regards,

    Mort
  • Uncle Ben 0 Points
    edited July 2008
    @Marditti: Well, believe me, I had my share of complaints about HP over the years. For example, I didn't like th way they dropped the Jornada line of Handheld PCs. But hey, that was their decision, and I give them the benefit of the doubt that from a business standpoint, it was the right one. In fact, in the months that followed, everyone else got out of the HPC market, including NEC with its successful Mobile Pro line. But I would never go on record trying to harm them in any way because I feel that the +'s with HP far surpass the -'s.

    @Patruns: I know, I've been neglecting you. But take my word for it Patty baby, I'll make it up to you, I guarantee it! Do not adjust your dial, stay put!
  • Uncle Ben 0 Points
    Patruns: I hope you have a freezer ... or a large family! :P

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  • marditti 0 Points
    Uncle Ben,

    Thank you for the note. There is very little chance that little me can hurt HP. However, I think that exposing their short comings may be good for the long run.
    It is unfortunate, that many companies cut costs to the point where the customer becomes the victim and eventualy may hurt business.
    Many years ago, in the sixties Chrysler's Corp RIP declared that they will do little quality control on their car. They will let the customer find the problems and than Chrysler will fix them. Using this approach, he claimed that smaller problems may be overlooked and they will not have to fix them and this saved them money. Yes it did and they went belly up.
    Mort
  • infama 0 Points
    Mort,

    You have to realize that you are mixing up 3 different HPs.

    There is the HP of Bill and Dave that survived until Lew Platt.

    Then there is the HP of Fiorina-Sneed that emulated the questionable practices of Lucent (from which she came). This is further highlighted by the ill-advised merger with Compaq (where the Digital/Tandem elements fit well, but the cowboy Compaq culture clashed).

    Then finally, you have the post Carly era of Mark Hurd that is closer to the HP way, but still embedded in the ethos of Wall street/East Coast culture. This is a reasonable workable compromise, given the recent merger history. i guess you cant turn back the clock, so...
  • patruns 10 Points
    Patruns: I hope you have a freezer ... or a large family! :P

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    Thank you UB! Me & the missus are now stocked for the winter. :P
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