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Re: TomTom running on IPhone

denisb1 0 Points
edited November -1 in Smartphone Navigation
My first thought is can we trust TomTom firmware running on an IPhone when they can't even get TomTom Home to work properly on Macintosh computers. Secondly, the only way to get the IPhone Tomtom is through the Apple store on the IPhone. You must pay for it then download wirelessly. What if it doesn't work... can you get your money back. Just some of my concerns.
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Comments

  • tomj03 0 Points
    iPhone has a big marketshare, Mac doesn't. Money drives everything.
  • orphius 0 Points
    One thing I dont understand, why dont Tomtom first fix all the bugs from their new product line (Go x30) instead of lunching new product. Kind of like microsoft (keep lunching new operating systems full of bugs). But atleast microsoft keep updating their product to make it bugfree, not erroneous firmware like tomtom (7.484).
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    I don't think any of this will matter as more info was released today by Apple indicating that 3rd party gps apps such as the one apparently planned by TomTom will not be allowed to use the iPhones 3G connectivity, effectively banning it from the platform according to several different sites.
  • Tim 1481 Points
    I don't think it is quite as black and white as that, gatorguy. Apple has licenses with companies like Google for their Maps program, Youtube, Yahoo for stock and weather data, etc. The license restrictions that those companies impose on Apple for how they use those apps are therefore passed back along to SDK developers.

    The statement in the SDK about navigation apps is exactly, word for word, the license for Google Maps. It has been in there for awhile-- it isn't new nor was it just released by Apple today... People just thought it was newsworthy today. :)

    Therefore I think we can expect that the statement in the SDK terms is referring to how people use the Google Maps data. That then would have no impact on people building their own navigation applications provided they don't rely on any of the Google Maps functionality that exists on the iPhone and "bring your own data" so to speak.

    If on the other hand (and I don't believe this is the case) it is Apple's intention to restrict turn-by-turn application then that says to me that Apple already has a partner signed up to provide that service.

    Either case doesn't rule out TomTom building an application. In addition, Nav-N-Go and Wayfinder have also said that they are working on navigation applications for the iPhone. So I'm pretty convinced it will happen-- from somewhere.
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    You've probably already done so, but I'm also downloading the SDK right now to read exactly the way they've stated it. More curious than anything since I noted Nav n go's announcement earlier and I'm sure they've done their research. I did see that a TT PR spokesman said that nothing had been decided about an app for the iPhone, regardless of what was reported yesterday.
  • Tim 1481 Points
    Yup, I've had the SDK since it was released. :)
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    I suspected you did :wink:

    Got it now. So the section 3.3.7 is really speaking just to the Google maps app?
  • Tim 1481 Points
    If I was reading that just as you are-- I would have no reason to necessarily think so. However-- much of that text is word for word the same as the Google Maps license.
  • orphius 0 Points
    Humm.... Interesting.
  • tomj03 0 Points
    On another forum, a poster estimated that it would cost 2400$ a year to operate the iPhone with GPS.
    I am not interesred.
  • dhn 336 Points
    Here in Canada we don't even have unlimited data plans offered by the major phone carriers, including Rogers which will finally be introducing the new iphone in July into Canada.

    Can you imagine what THAT would cost for a gps to run on the phone!! :shock: :shock:
  • Tim 1481 Points
    I'm missing something here... The GPS signal is coming from the satellites, not the cell network. (According to how the programming can make requests for accuracy of location information.) The application is on-board the device-- and the maps are on-board the device. The iPhone is 8 GB or 16 GB and the TomTom application and maps currently fit on 1GB drives, so no issue there.

    So what would go over the network?
  • dhn 336 Points
    I'm missing something here... The GPS signal is coming from the satellites, not the cell network. (According to how the programming can make requests for accuracy of location information.) The application is on-board the device-- and the maps are on-board the device. The iPhone is 8 GB or 16 GB and the TomTom application and maps currently fit on 1GB drives, so no issue there.

    So what would go over the network?
    Tim, I'm still trying to figure out how sound gets put on records (You are likely too young to know what they are :wink: ).

    All I know is the other major cell carrier up here (Bell Mobility) is advertising heavily new phones it has that the user can get 'real time' GPS information on. So, something must be getting sent over the network. I am confident other members will provide insight.
  • Tim 1481 Points
    Right, most of the turn-by-turn GPS systems for cell phones come with a monthly fee, on top of the data usage, and the maps are not stored on-board--- they travel "through the air" and eat up your data. Yes, if that was the case it would be exceptionally expensive if you didn't have an unlimited data plan.

    But I suspect that isn't the route that TomTom (or Nav-n-go, or Wayfinder) would go with the iPhone. It has got a ton of memory available, put everything on the device and run it locally. Then no need to worry about what happens when you drive outside of cell coverage area.

    So I think people are assuming it would work the way most other cell phone GPS systems work... which doesn't seem to be the logical way to go with the iPhone.
  • Tim 1481 Points
    Also if people didn't catch it, here is a quote Wired ran earlier citing a TomTom PR person:
    All I can say is that we have tested and successfully run our navigation software on the iPhone and it looks good and works well. We’ll have to look more closely to Apple’s strategy before we can say more about what kind of opportunities this will bring us. . . Apple is developing pedestrian navigation demand, which we see as complementary to the already developed demand for dedicated car navigation solutions. With more and more people getting acquainted with navigation, this will also further grow the demand for car navigation.
  • JDub 0 Points
    Then no need to worry about what happens when you drive outside of cell coverage area.

    So I think people are assuming it would work the way most other cell phone GPS systems work... which doesn't seem to be the logical way to go with the iPhone.
    This sounds like a good idea but for one thing: most cell phones don't have GPS receivers onboard and would hence rely on the cell network to triangulate their position and send it to them over the network. So you're tied to their service (unless your phone has a gps antenna/addition).
  • Tim 1481 Points
    Since we are talking about the 3G iPhone, GPS is covered.
  • JDub 0 Points
    Sorry, was thinking of the original iPhone. I guess this brings us back to the quesion: just what do you need a service from them for?
  • Tim 1481 Points
    From Tele Atlas today, founder Alain De Taeye said this to Reuters:
    De Taeye said he expected real-time, turn-by-turn navigation applications to be available for Apple's iPhone despite reports that Apple's rules for developing iPhone software appeared not to allow it.
    "We are making sure that navigation is an application that is allowed," De Taeye said. "If there is any restriction on the platform, that indeed has to do with the restrictions that we have in our contracts. Navigation is allowed, provided that the right fees are paid."
  • Tim 1481 Points
    TomTom iPhone App... it is real. :)
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    Remember you heard it here first. :lol:
  • mvl 191 Points
    It's on the tomtom.com home page now - sort of.
  • denisb1 0 Points
    TomTom iPhone App... it is real. :)
    It sure is. No price yet.
  • denisb1 0 Points
    TomTom iPhone App... it is real. :)


    It sure is. No price yet.
    One thing for sure... I won't be a guinea pig this time.
  • dkoenig 101 Points
    Anybody have an idea if it will ever be on Android?
  • Tim 1481 Points
    I haven't heard any good rumors about that, but IMHO it wouldn't be huge surprise to see it there.
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    No idea, tho TomTom hasn't indicated they've had a complete change-of-heart on mobile apps. A few months back their CEO stated that if would just be too difficult and require too much engineering to create mobile apps for several phones over several OS's. If I had to guess, I would say no, at least in the near term.
  • Tim 1481 Points
    tho TomTom hasn't indicated they've had a complete change-of-heart on mobile apps.
    In the last month they've released a new version of Navigator 7 for Windows Mobile as well as confirming development of an iPhone app that was started over a year ago.

    Either they have had a change of heart or they never did dislike the idea and were bluffing. :)
  • Tim 1481 Points
    If anyone has any questions they would like to have answered about the TomTom iPhone app, add them to this thread within the next 30 hours.

    Choose your question carefully-- they announced that it would be available "later this summer" and that pricing is "yet to be determined" so don't bother with those types of questions that I won't likely be able to provide answers to.
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    tho TomTom hasn't indicated they've had a complete change-of-heart on mobile apps.

    In the last month they've released a new version of Navigator 7 for Windows Mobile as well as confirming development of an iPhone app that was started over a year ago.

    Either they have had a change of heart or they never did dislike the idea and were bluffing. :)
    Tim, I went back and read the earlier TT statement in light of what they have done since. Both Navigator7 and most of the iPhone app was already designed at that point. Now his statements would make sense. It would be quite of an engineering commitment to design several flavors of either app to run on Symbian, winCE, Android, etc., and on different phones with different capabilities. I believe now that's what he was referencing and not that mobile development plans, particularly for those already in the pipeline and close to completion, were now on the back-burner entirely. I might might end up being wrong about more versions of TT mobile releasing on new platforms in the next 6 months, but I personally don't think so.
  • Tim 1481 Points
    I don't think it is likely to see any new platforms within six months either-- but mobile phones are clearly part of TomTom's future strategy. "Back to their roots" so to speak. TomTom was originally a PDA software development company (called PalmTop if I recall) before getting into navigation and PNDs.
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    Absolutely correct, and I can completely agree with your statement. Just don't think it's part of their near-term plans. Eventually both TomTom and Garmin are going to have to become much more involved in mobile applications or risk "Magellan-izing"
  • mvl 191 Points
    I disagree - I think the future of navigation is in the connected dashboard, along the lines of ford sync or carminat.

    I still feel phone screens are waaay too small. I only put up with my teeny 4.3 because of IQroutes. Larger phone screens would be too big to fit in pockets, unless the foldable LED actually takes off.

    The only endgame that I see with a phone in the picture is a second-screen dock. Where your iphone plugs into a dash receptacle and projects onto a proper 8 inch nav touchscreen.
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    MVL, I consider that a mobile application :)

    A little more info here:

    http://gps.about.com/b/2009/06/10/more-details-on-tomtom-for-iphone-mount-has-its-own-gps-chip.htm#gB3
  • mvl 191 Points
    Thanks for the link - those guys got the secondary-GPS leak, smart of Tomtom to backup the Apple gps.

    Really, though, if tomtom can't launch high-end audio partnerships soon, I hope they at least launch some popout DIN-docks.

    Something like the link below where the tomtom can be docked behind the screen. It would be cool if it had a line out to the car radio, or even better intercepts the radio's lineout to the speakers to interrupt with directions.

    http://www.719dvd.com

    Then again if Garmin catches up to IQroutes and HD traffic, I could always jump ship.
  • mvl 191 Points
    If anyone has any questions they would like to have answered about the TomTom iPhone app, add them to this thread within the next 30 hours.
    1) TTS?
    2) Speech recognition?
    3) traffic via 3G data?
    4) can it run on legally-unlocked iPhones (eg: Honk Kong imports)?
    5) compatible with Tomtom Bluetooth remote?
  • Tim 1481 Points
    edited June 2009
    I think they confirmed It does have TTS.
  • dhn 336 Points
    Available in Canada?? :evil:
  • Tim 1481 Points
    I don't see why it wouldn't be. But I'll try to find out.
  • gber 0 Points
    edited June 2009
    Since this will be an always connected device while in the car dock, can we expect to see:
    1. Live Services?
    2. Pushed map share corrections from TT to device?
    3. User corrections and IQ Route speed profiles pushed automatically to TT?
    4. Pushed alerts ie "heading into bad weather".. the possibilities are endless.
    5. Will existing TT users who pay for quarterly map updates, traffic, etc on a TT device get a bundled discount for map updates, traffic for the iPhone? Bundled discounts could be based on number of TT devices within one Household.
  • mvl 191 Points
    The about.com post was edited and now says it has line out for music.

    I previously assumed the "play on your car stereo" in the presentation meant FM transmitter. Does the dock have an FM transmitter?
  • Tim 1481 Points
    I haven't seen any reference to an FM transmitter. The picture of the mount looks like it shows a line out just above the power connection.
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    My understanding is yes, line out and no to fm transmitter. But Tim will get the full scoop I'm sure.
  • Tim 1481 Points
    I've updated the TomTom iPhone App article with some new information and new speculation.
  • gatorguy 326 Points
    We're almost in sync now Tim :) I noticed you put TTS back to a question mark. I've had one source tell me no TTS, but both you and a mod at another forum both felt it did. Guess everyone will know soon enough.

    I'll still bet there's a subscription in there somewhere. . .
  • Tim 1481 Points
    I'll still bet there's a subscription in there somewhere. . .
    Tough to pull off within the confines of the App Store restrictions.
  • mvl 191 Points
    I've updated the TomTom iPhone App article with some new information and new speculation.
    Does that mean our "30 hours" is up? Or are you still hoping to get additional questions answered?
  • Tim 1481 Points
    Yup, my briefing was a couple of hours ago. Outside if what I noted in the article, most answers were generally "we don't have any details about features not already disclosed in the demo or on our website.".
  • mvl 191 Points
    This is interesting - a competitor of Tomtom has announced a subscription model for the iphone.

    http://news.prnewswire.com/ViewContent.aspx?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/06-17-2009/0005045950&EDATE=

    "Full navigation functionality can be purchased for $9.99 per month via subscription."

    So it appears Apple is allowing a subscription model after all. This means a more traditional method of Tomtom subscription sales could be used for maps, and hopefully traffic.
  • Tim 1481 Points
    Right, that is part of the "in-app" purchasing that comes with the iPhone OS 3.0. Note that it doesn't allow you to offer an app for free and then have "in-app" purchases. Free apps don't allow in-app purchases. So they couldn't offer the application (without maps) for free and then charge to add on the maps.
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