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PND4ME - a question for you

blico 0 Points
edited November -1 in Magellan Vehicle Forum
You seem to have an in with magellan. Would you look at my previous post titled "1470 or 1475". I finally got to talk to a supervisor/manager at Magellan TS - he said that they are aware of the accuracy problem and are working on it, would you be able to verify this, or have I just put on an indefinite hold? Thank you in advance!

Comments

  • You seem to have an in with magellan. Would you look at my previous post titled "1470 or 1475". I finally got to talk to a supervisor/manager at Magellan TS - he said that they are aware of the accuracy problem and are working on it, would you be able to verify this, or have I just put on an indefinite hold? Thank you in advance!
    All I can say is that they are aware of the issues and are working on it. Will they fix it soon, I have no idea but I been testing the 1470 / 1475 and I don't find it to be that bad off in Bay Area. If you want the unit to be right on, than the cost goes up to $3-$4K and not under $150. You have to understand you get what you paid for and can't expect accuracy of a $3-$4K unit wihen you are not willing to pay more for your PND.
    Look in the mirro and you will know who to blame.

    Good Luck
  • blico 0 Points
    PND4ME - thank you for your quick response. Had my original unit not been dead on, I wouldn't be that concerned. I know they can produce a unit that is accurate. I did pay $199, which is a far cry from 3-4k. However, had there been a note on the box that read "this unit may be off as much as 100 feet" I probably would have not bought it. The problem with being off when moving is not a big deal. It becomes a big deal when the unit tells you "you have arrived" and your destination is nowwhere in sight or you go by your destination.
    As late as this morning the frontline TS folks were ready to issue another RA# for the problem - instead I was able to get to a Manager. How many more units will be swapped before they get the message?
    Again - thank you for checking!
  • PND4ME - thank you for your quick response. Had my original unit not been dead on, I wouldn't be that concerned. I know they can produce a unit that is accurate. I did pay $199, which is a far cry from 3-4k. However, had there been a note on the box that read "this unit may be off as much as 100 feet" I probably would have not bought it. The problem with being off when moving is not a big deal. It becomes a big deal when the unit tells you "you have arrived" and your destination is nowwhere in sight or you go by your destination.
    As late as this morning the frontline TS folks were ready to issue another RA# for the problem - instead I was able to get to a Manager. How many more units will be swapped before they get the message?
    Again - thank you for checking!
    I believe there maybe some confusion here. For you to route to a destination right to the front door, the mapping software first have to identify where that front door will be located. Here is the issue, depending on the builder you can have a large lot and the house or building could be located on one side of the lots while the next house will be located on the opposite side, so what the mapping company do is find the center of the lot as the final destination. The bigger issue is when there is a huge shopping center than you are lucky if it gets you near the center and not the parking lot.
    You should have an accuracy of 3 meters or about 10 feet accuracy, but depending on how the GPS is match to the mapping software, the accuracy could be compromise. There is also GPS drift. GPS take a reading once a second, if you look at the specifications for your unit, it probably says something like “within X feet 95% of the time so for you to expect a $199 unit to be very accurate, you will not be to happy to find it is not currently available at the $199 price.
  • blico 0 Points
    Oh no, I don't expect that accuracy! My orig. unit anounced arrival when I approached my driveway, and was also accurate for other destinations that are ON a particular street. The unit I have now wants me to go another 100'. Which is what happens when I goto an "on the street" destination. I agree about the shopping centers.
    It is consistently off for the same destinations. It will either be too soon or not at all. If you pull up to an intersection and have the unit set for "current location" in all cases it shows around 100' further to travel - n,s,e, or w. Puzzling is the fact that on some destinations, the unit chimes arrival about 100' before I get there.
  • It's frustrating isn't it? I post the Same problem as you about 3 post down. I pretty much gave up. PDN4ME's answer dosn't make sense, I don't think you have to spend $1000+ to get deceint accuracy. I have a hand held GPS unit that I paid $200 for and it is only off 3' to 15' maybe sometimes 20' never 100' to 200'. Come on give me a break they have to fix this. I'm not sure about Garmin or any other company but they gotta be better then this one. It a shame I like magellan, they have nice features on there units I just wish they would get there act together.
  • niks1 0 Points
    I tested a few 2009 Magellan models, including RM1470, and I have already posted a couple times that strange offset (100-200 ft) has nothing to do with map inaccuracy, GPS positioning inaccuracy, hardware problems or the fact that Magellan units cost less than $200.
    This offset is just a bug in current Magellan software.
    What’s the proof?
    I loaded (using some tricks) 2008 Magellan navigation software onto SD card, booted a 2009 Road Mate from the SD card and used this “mixed” GPS for a few days. Offset has disappeared completely.
    Cheap ($200) Magellan hardware loaded with old and cheap (less than $200) Magellan software worked as expected – no offsets.
  • I tested a few 2009 Magellan models, including RM1470, and I have already posted a couple times that strange offset (100-200 ft) has nothing to do with map inaccuracy, GPS positioning inaccuracy, hardware problems or the fact that Magellan units cost less than $200.
    This offset is just a bug in current Magellan software.
    What’s the proof?
    I loaded (using some tricks) 2008 Magellan navigation software onto SD card, booted a 2009 Road Mate from the SD card and used this “mixed” GPS for a few days. Offset has disappeared completely.
    Cheap ($200) Magellan hardware loaded with old and cheap (less than $200) Magellan software worked as expected – no offsets.
    I wish is as simple as you have stated. I also have 2008 software running side by side of a 2010 to be release software and I can tell you I k
    notice very little differece in accuracy
    if the mapping company chane some attributes this could affect accuracy. To compile the raw maping data and map match this information taking GOS drift etc is much more difficult a task that you think
    and why don't you price a prfessional gps product and compare the accuracy and you will find you get what you pay for
    I'm done
  • Tim 1481 Points
    I've seen this issue myself on some of the newer Magellan devices and it isn't related to the map nor is it related to the processed GPS signal. The coordinates displayed and the map itself are fine. But as you are driving the position where your car is drawn lags behind where you actually are by a considerable amount. Turn around and go back down the same road and your position is still behind by a considerable amount (not ahead). If the issue was the map then you would be drawn "ahead" of your real position driving the opposite way down the road.
  • blico 0 Points
    Tim - I agree with you on the lag aspect you are posting about. However, for some reason the inputted address is actually off(in my case) by about 100'. When I input my home address - the map actually shows that my address is down the road another 100'. Coming from the east - I never get to the destination, coming from the west - it announces arrival 100' too soon. While traveling with "current location" displayed - the distance to the next intersection is continually updated and when I stop at that intersection it shows another 100' or so to go so. At the intersection it is a lag, but never updates the distance to a reasonable amount until I eventually pass through and get about 50 0r 60' past. To me, this is not a big deal, and it does chime in a timely manor for turns.
    Bottom line in my case is the inputted destination is not correct for the map display. This is true in everycase for every inputted destination. As I stated before, my original 1470 was spot on so I know the unit is capable, I think that these accuracy problems started around the time of the 2.05fw.
  • Tim 1481 Points
    See the discussion in this thread. An individual address being off by only 100 feet is very, very good.
  • See the discussion in this thread. An individual address being off by only 100 feet is very, very good.

    Tim, there are hundreds of attributes on each road segment that makes the mapping software more accurate, these attributes are sold at different prices and I would say it could be possible that these GPS manufacturers these days trying to save every penny is making due with less information to save on memory space and also cost from NavTeq.

    You should consider asking NavTeq to invite you to some of the direction conference, I been attending these conference since they offered it and I can tell you that what goes behind the screen explains a lot about why these CHEAPER PND products seems to be getting worst as far as mapping accuracy. The information is all there and available from NavTeq, it is up to the manufacturers to purchase them or not.

    Also, in certain unverified category road classes, the information provided to the GPS manufactures such as Garmin and Magellan could be way off and this is the reason why factory installed GPS units will say the user is driving in a unverified area and address may not be accurate.

    There is also the GPS signal issue, if you have poor GPS signal, a unit that have better GPS receiver will be more accurate, this is the why I compare the $4-$5K professional surveying GPS unit to a PND, there is no comparison and yet everyone wants something but are unwilling to pay for it.

    I said if you have a Champagne taste but a beef budget, you need to either get pay more for what you do or down grade your expectations in life.

    Everyone this year that came through my store is looking for a GPS that is less than $100, for me to sell a GPS for a $100, I will need to sell it out of a vending machine because I can't afford to have a knowledgeable salesman help a consumer for an hour and make $10 on the product.

    We all get what we ask for, cheap junk at a discounted price. You are better off shopping at flea market and garage sales, you will get a better bargain with older units that are more solid and will last longer. The old PathMaster and Magellan 750Nav we have on display is still function very well and it's been over 10 years, how many unit you buy today will last more than a few years?
  • Tim 1481 Points
    Tim, there are hundreds of attributes on each road segment that makes the mapping software more accurate, these attributes are sold at different prices and I would say it could be possible that these GPS manufacturers these days trying to save every penny is making due with less information to save on memory space and also cost from NavTeq.
    If that were the case then I'd expect they would put their best data available on their website. Instead the data I see on Navteq.com is the same as what I see in PNDs, with the exception of the occasional difference in map release. I have sample raw data from both Navteq and Tele Atlas so I'm fairly familiar with the capabilities and options. I don't think Navteq will be letting me into any conferences anytime soon. ;)
  • Tim, there are hundreds of attributes on each road segment that makes the mapping software more accurate, these attributes are sold at different prices and I would say it could be possible that these GPS manufacturers these days trying to save every penny is making due with less information to save on memory space and also cost from NavTeq.

    If that were the case then I'd expect they would put their best data available on their website. Instead the data I see on Navteq.com is the same as what I see in PNDs, with the exception of the occasional difference in map release. I have sample raw data from both Navteq and Tele Atlas so I'm fairly familiar with the capabilities and options. I don't think Navteq will be letting me into any conferences anytime soon. ;)
    Not necessary Tim, if the data is more accurate in the past, why would they degrade their content.
    I would think it is possible that NavTeq changed their format and when the manufactures compile the raw map data, they interpreted differently which can also cause errors and inaccuracy.
    Have you ever ask NavTeq if you can participate in their conference? I have attended both NT and TA mapping conference, and the stuff you learn will make you rethink all that you know.
    Also, it's nice to see what's features will be offered soon in the near future for PND's. We just don't have enough memory and processing speed to do all that is being offered by NT and TA, it's to bad because there are so many cool stuff and pedestrian mode is going to be so much better.
    Have you tried the discover city software that is being offered by Garmin?
  • Tim 1481 Points
    if the data is more accurate in the past, why would they degrade their content.
    Aside from occasional map errors, I haven't seen any degradation in accuracy.
  • blico 0 Points
    See the discussion in this thread. An individual address being off by only 100 feet is very, very good.
    Tim --- Thanks for posting that. I understand now how inaccurate alot of them can be. However, if the map hasn't changed (supposedly), then wouldn't it stand to reason that you would have the same accuracy that you had in a previous same unit? Or, was I just really lucky with my first unit? And - why would Magellan try to fix a non-fixable problem?
  • Tim 1481 Points
    I haven't gone back through your posts with a fine-toothed comb, but there are a few things to consider.

    First is the ability of the GPS chip to calculate your current coordinates correctly. The accuracy is generally within about 10 meters, 95% of the time. I don't think that is the issue here.

    Second is the accuracy of the map database which I contend generally doesn't change much from device to device using the same map vendor and a similar map release. I don't think that is what you are seeing either.

    Third is the ability of the processor in the GPS to perform all of the calculations it needs to perform and display the data in a timely (like once per second) manner. I've also seen the intersection issue you describe. Regardless of any address interpolation that might be happening or "thinning" of the data, intersections should be correct. Yet you can be stopped at an intersection with the GPS still showing you 100-200 feet away.

    This is the issue I've seen with many of the newer Magellan devices. Switch out the app and keep the same hardware and same maps and the problem goes away. The map accuracy and the hardware are pretty much eliminated variables in that test leaving the likely culprit as the application/software.
    if the map hasn't changed (supposedly), then wouldn't it stand to reason that you would have the same accuracy that you had in a previous same unit?
    Agreed, I think something isn't right in the software that is causing the issue. I drove a few hundred miles along an interstate recently (in both directions) and the map display was consistently 3 seconds behind my actual position at about 70mph. (Just over 300 feet).
  • blico 0 Points
    Tim and PND4ME - thanks for your insight and opinions on this, I will wait now and see what Magellan might come up with.
  • I'm glad I came across this thread. I was seriously considering replacing my Maestro 3100 with a 1470 but now I'm not so sure. The main use during the summer is garge saleing. Load in all the sales as a trip and optimize. Accuracy of my 3100 is excellent and I understand that the 1470 lacks a trip mode. The larger screen sounded great but the accuracy problem and the lack of a trip mode is pretty much a deal killer.
  • Sorry guys but i dont buy into PND4MEs response that you need to spend 3-4K for accuracy.

    My Magellan 4250 and 4350 never lagged my cars position by 100ft or more. I've also used an old tomtom that didn't have this problem.

    I bought the 1475T and right out of the box, with firmware 2.20, the car position wasn't close to where i was driving. More frustrating is you stop at an intersection and it shows you sitting 100-200ft+ from your current position. The older Magellans didn't exhibit this. It's isolated to this unit and has nothing to do with how much money you have spent. I find this to be an extremely weak excuse. Magellan and their testers have to step up their attention to detail and/or increase the number of beta testers. I think it's sad i want my three year old 4250 back.

    Lately, in the past year, I'm becoming more convinced that Magellan does little, if any, hands on testing before shipping to the public. I'm also not sure they listen to their users. Major blunders like eliminating the +/- map zoom buttons on the 43xx pretty much ruined a near perfect gps. When many of us complained on this forum we were brushed off as being too picky. I remember being asked why i would want to change the zoom on the map while driving? Not to mention how dangerous it was to adjust the sliding zoom (which was much to sensitive) while driving.

    Now the 14xx series wont even show you what street number you are near. So if you are in a strange city at night, driving on a busy street wondering what street number you are near, good luck, start looking out your side window instead. Fatal flaw for a gps.

    As mush as i like the AAA book, map detail and the one touch menus there are too many recent major omissions/bugs and i dont think anyone at Magellan is listening because as we are told to spend 3-4k on a more accurate device.
  • Marc 301 Points
    I'm not saying they are listening or not listening, but the advice you got is from PND4ME not Magellan. This is a bug If and when Magellan fixes it remains to be seen. Like you, I really like the Magellan GPS layout and features, but after having two units become bricks in less than a year and seeing software that was more like alpha releases than betas I decided that Garmin was the lesser of two evils. If Magellan cut down the number of units they released and made sure the ones they released were solid I think their customers would be a lot happier.
  • I feel the same way Grandmaster.
  • Sorry guys but i dont buy into PND4MEs response that you need to spend 3-4K for accuracy.

    My Magellan 4250 and 4350 never lagged my cars position by 100ft or more. I've also used an old tomtom that didn't have this problem.

    I bought the 1475T and right out of the box, with firmware 2.20, the car position wasn't close to where i was driving. More frustrating is you stop at an intersection and it shows you sitting 100-200ft+ from your current position. The older Magellans didn't exhibit this. It's isolated to this unit and has nothing to do with how much money you have spent. I find this to be an extremely weak excuse. Magellan and their testers have to step up their attention to detail and/or increase the number of beta testers. I think it's sad i want my three year old 4250 back.

    Lately, in the past year, I'm becoming more convinced that Magellan does little, if any, hands on testing before shipping to the public. I'm also not sure they listen to their users. Major blunders like eliminating the +/- map zoom buttons on the 43xx pretty much ruined a near perfect gps. When many of us complained on this forum we were brushed off as being too picky. I remember being asked why i would want to change the zoom on the map while driving? Not to mention how dangerous it was to adjust the sliding zoom (which was much to sensitive) while driving.

    Now the 14xx series wont even show you what street number you are near. So if you are in a strange city at night, driving on a busy street wondering what street number you are near, good luck, start looking out your side window instead. Fatal flaw for a gps.

    As mush as i like the AAA book, map detail and the one touch menus there are too many recent major omissions/bugs and i dont think anyone at Magellan is listening because as we are told to spend 3-4k on a more accurate device.
    Grandmaster, if you know it all than tell us what is causing the issues? Complaining about it and saying what you say does not help anyone does it? You are stirring the pot and it is not productive in my opinon.
    Maybe offer locations that it is always late, is it everywhere you travel in the sticks or in the cities when they have limited view from the sky and the GPS receiver is degraded some? You need to say more than it does not work like the older version or units.
    You know the Magellan Maestro vs the RoadMate have different memory size and processor speed and the speed of calculating could be different.
    Depending on your region, it may track you differently, I tested this in the SF bay area and yes, it is not as tight as some of the older unit but it's good enough! and the cost was much less also. Who gives a damn if it is 100 feet off which is 30 yards, are you doing surviving or just finding a building address? 30 yards does not make or break anyone as far as routing accuracy does it?
    Here is the problem, you guys want cheap and fast so there goes quality, we have only a few weeks to test and most of the time they release it before they can fix it due to competition.
    Garmin have the same issue, look at their old Street Pilot and compare to these cheaper Nuvi 2xx or 12xx and 7x5, 8x5 etc and tell me there is no difference.
    You keep saying your old unit don't have these issue so stick to your older unit until Magellan come up with a fix if there is a fix.
    Trying to stuff 1 gallon of information into a pint and make it fit right is not as easy as some may think.
    I'm tired of the people that claims they know when they have no clue as to some of the challenges Magellan is faced with.
    When you can build a $5,000 car that perform like a $500,000 car and be the same, than you have accomplish what no one else can.
    Don't like your unit, buy something that you like or keep your old unit, there is no perfect GPS unit and as long as 95% of the user is happy with the unit, it's good enough.

    Merry Christmas
  • I think PND4ME meant $300-$400, not $3,000-$4,000.

    I have no problem waiting for a fix...being an IT engineer I'm quite used to it with technology....just tell me that it will be fixed directly, not by a faceless person here on a public forum. (No shot at you PND4ME...we appreciate your help immensely) The thing I think that bothers people most, is the Customer Service perspective, which at Magellan is a very frustrating experience. If you call tech, they either deny knowledge of the issue, or in some cases have acknowledged it and sent a replacement unit which did the same thing. The general attitude I have received there from anyone is that I was bothering them or I was crazy. Whether I spent $5 or $500, if you promise technical support with a product, you should at least provide it courteously, professionally and accurately. I don't think 95% of the people who bought it are satisfied, even though I feel it is a good unit for the price.

    In my particular case, I took all my family's GPS unit - A Garmin 205, A Garmin 765T, a Tom Tom 130s and compared them to my Magellan. All of the units seemed to approximate my road position with regard to mapped intersections, street etc very closely EXCEPT the Magellan 1475t, which always appear to lag behind the actual position of the vehicle.

    I don't think it's that big of a deal for everything else you get at this price point, and once you know it exists, it is easy to compensate for....but you should at least get the same performance as other GPS units at the similar price point.
  • tommmm 0 Points
    edited December 2009
    sorry mult post?
  • tommmm 0 Points
    edited December 2009
    mult post
  • tommmm 0 Points
    edited December 2009
    wrong
  • To: PND4ME

    My new 1440 came with version 1.12 and AAA version 8.

    I have read numerous "issues" about 2.05 (now 2.20) firmware update. Is it really necessary/helpful to update at all..?? I mostly use the unit in Los Angeles and my usage is minimal. Please advise your opinion.

    Thank you.
  • To: PND4ME

    My new 1440 came with version 1.12 and AAA version 8.

    I have read numerous "issues" about 2.05 (now 2.20) firmware update. Is it really necessary/helpful to update at all..?? I mostly use the unit in Los Angeles and my usage is minimal. Please advise your opinion.

    Thank you.
    Ken2009

    I would say updating normally helps with bug fixes, but if you have not encounter any issues than staying with what you have is good enough.
    What's the old saying, what you don't know don't hurt you.

    Good Luck and Happy New Year
  • I know you didn't ask my opinion, but I am going to give it anyway. I have found that version 2.05 recalculates missed turns better. However, if you have not noticed any problems and you don't care about the qwert keyboard, I would stay with what works.
  • To: PND4ME

    My new 1440 came with version 1.12 and AAA version 8.

    I have read numerous "issues" about 2.05 (now 2.20) firmware update. Is it really necessary/helpful to update at all..?? I mostly use the unit in Los Angeles and my usage is minimal. Please advise your opinion.

    Thank you.


    Ken2009

    I would say updating normally helps with bug fixes, but if you have not encounter any issues than staying with what you have is good enough.
    What's the old saying, what you don't know don't hurt you.

    Good Luck and Happy New Year



    Thank you both, PND4ME and elvisfan..!!
  • blico 0 Points
    A little update.
    Still not accurate and waiting for Magellan to come up with fix. However, If you go to the "current location" save a location and give it a name, it is spot on accurate everytime you go to one of those saved "previous destinations". I still contend that units with FW of 2.20r2 and 2.05r3 do not line up with the installed maps for address'.
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