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60csx no longer uses SiRF chips
Boyd
1985 Points
Anyone else hear about this?
http://www.mediatek.com/en/news/info.php?sn=15
http://www.mediatek.com/en/news/info.php?sn=15
In another forum a user asked Garmin support about this and posted their response which said they could neither confirm nor deny it...Garmin Selects MediaTek GPS Chipsets for Outdoor Navigation Devices
Hsin-Chu, Taiwan --May 25, 2009-- MediaTek, Inc., the leading fabless semiconductor company for wireless communications and digital multimedia solutions, today announced MT3329, its advanced single-chip all-in-one GPS solution. This product in mass production has also been integrated by a wide range of Garmin outdoor navigators, the Garmin GPSMAP 60 series.
Comments
There is nothing on the unit itself or the packaging to indicate the MTK chipset.
SiRfStarIII 90nm: -158 dBm
SiRfStarIII 65nm: -158 dBm (lower power consuming)
MTK: -159 dBm
MTKII: -165 dBm
These are all very good numbers, but now the question is if the Oregon, particulary the newest 550 uses the MTKII chip?
dBm is a unit of power with 0 dBm = 1 milliwatt.
-127.5 is the typical received signal power from a GPS satellite (probably the most powerful one).
A small piece of wire sitting on a table is said to emit -174 dBm of RF energy just from the movement of electrons.
I just bought a 60csx today at a local Best Buy, and checking it, it has Software Ver. 3.70, and GPS SW Ver. 3.00, so from what I read here, it has the SiRFStar III chipset.
So is this good?
Reading, I see people saying that the SiRFStar III chipset is the best. Is this still the case?
Thx
UPDATE: I just updated my 60csx to the very latest Firmware. It nows shows the Software Ver. to be 4.00, and the GPS SW Ver., 3.00s.
.
Mine is 1184286xx
Thx
.
It looks like they made a lot of these. Some 85,7xx units between yours and mine alone. Hopefully they made no hardware changes in between.
At least mine wasn't one of the first anyway, being number 428,6xx off the line. I wonder at what S/N they changed the chip set?
.
In reality, I'm not sure how you can know FOR SURE what's inside your GPS unless you physically take it apart and look at the chips.
Accuracy seems decent most of the time, it usually is tracking 8 satellites and tells me that I am about 14 ft plus or minus. Overhead canopy knocks me down to about 20 feet.
"Software Version 3.90"
and
"GPS SW Version 2.00m"
So, which chipset do I have in my unit?
(Unit ID 36041601xx)
Thanks for any assistance,
Stovebolt
I like the 60CSX, as it is a great improvement over my GarminV. I have had only one issue with it, on a dual-sport ride in Nevada in October. (Brief RR posted here
http://www.spotadventures.com/user/profile?user_id=47618)
It was the same issue described by one poster in this forum, who stated that he experienced the "Track Up" going haywire and having the display just switch all of a sudden to "North UP." I noticed this while moving at 0-10 mph though, and although it gave me a temporary conundrum, actually causing me to nav in reverse to take a different route of a "safer" nature (we couldn't afford to run out of gas, time or daylight at that point) I did reflect later on that I may have a setting turned on/off or set in such a way as to have "caused" my experience. But I still don't quite buy into this. There is a setting in ORIENTATION to select "below" a specified altitude, and that is where I'm guessing - but I have it set at "120mi." In my mind this means a Zoom view level above the map, and I know I was zooming in and out during my nav problem, but that's the only thing I can think of - besides the batteries wiggin. I did change the batts later - approx 3 more running hours on the unit, and didn't experience the problem since. So I wrote it off to low batts. (I do not run lithiums as per owner's manual suggestion concerning startup voltage spikes, just running duracell alkaline.)
Stovebolt
**********************
Is there any review of the two versions?
Thx
I believe that, on paper, the MTK chip is a higher performing product in that it is more sensitive, faster to acquire first lock, and uses less power.
setup, and do some serious compaison. Sure has been a doozy of a winter!
Anyway, I appreciate all the information on this forum, so thank you.
Stovebolt
Team Ruptured Buzzard
"Never Give Up"
And I can´t get a answer from garmin
I see posts from others who are actually looking for the SiRF based units, so you could probably sell if you end up getting one. The only way to know for sure is to start it up and see what firmware you're running.
But honestly, it probably doesn't make much difference one way or the other.
I have a Holux M-1000c with MTK MT3329, is great getting a fix and under trees, but near buildings has serious problems.
A review of the two versions would be great.
http://tinyurl.com/yj82y7f
A good review of the two units would be great.
After reading this forum I was pretty shocked to learn that Garmin has replaced the SIII with another chip (if it ain't broke,......) so I checked and sure 'nuf I have Software v4.20 and GPS Software v2.40m. A Cadillac with a Yugo chip and -not- what I originally purchased.
All that to ask this: Is there a software patch/update that makes the 'other' chip perform the way the SIII does? Does GPS Software v3.00 improve performance?
I know this is an old thread, but any help appreciated. I purchased a 62s and it's no better.
The new eTrex 30 might be worth a look. I have not followed it too closely but know it uses a newer chipset that support GLOSNASS. These only just started shipping so there are not a lot of user reports yet. See Rich Owing's article "GLOSNASS in my hand" over at GPSTracklog.com for starters.
After reading this forum I was pretty shocked to learn that Garmin has replaced the SIII with another chip (if it ain't broke,......) so I checked and sure 'nuf I have Software v4.20 and GPS Software v2.40m. A Cadillac with a Yugo chip and -not- what I originally purchased.
All that to ask this: Is there a software patch/update that makes the 'other' chip perform the way the SIII does? Does GPS Software v3.00 improve performance?
I know this is an old thread, but any help appreciated. I purchased a 62s but it has sticky issues all it's own, so no solution there.
If you have beneficial help, tips, links to other helpful threads/sites, etc, please post. If you have nothing more than criticism, correction to grammer, punctuation, etc, or just want to increase your post-count, please don't waste your (and my) time.
It's not the best way for a new member to start out.
To reiterate, check software version by following this key sequence:
ON>Menu>Menu>Setup>System>Menu>Software Version>
There will be two 'Versions' displayed:
Software Version X.xx
GPS SW Version X.xx(alpha letter) If alpha='m', it's not SirfIII.
Anyone who has a 60Csx with a confirmed SirfIII chipset and who wants to sell, contact me.
Happy Holidays to all.
I'm a heavy Map Page user, since it has so many good features, from being able to toggle between the Course or Bearing on the Go To Line, or using the Measure Distance line, if the Go To line is too wide, lots of choices in the Data Fields, including the Pointer, and being able to using the rocker to pan the white arrow to the destination, where the Map Pointer box shows the destination L/L, UTM UPS, or whatever you are using.
I outlined the entire performance and research issue and sent it to Garmin tech support asking how I could exchange for what I originally purchased: SirfIII. All I wanted was another 'exchange unit' with the SirfIII chipset (what I thought the Map 60Csx had all along), but was TOTALLY IGNORED.
So, for their efforts, I am shopping for a smartphone. It's no wonder the cell industry is eating their lunch. I'll never purchase another garmin product brand new. They don't value me, they're off my list.
But I'll find another 60Csx with a SirfIII and purchase it used.
A few month ago while hiking the GPS started to act up. The unit would lockup and none of the buttons would operate.
The only way to restore operation was to pull the battery and restart the GPS. Everything appeared to operate normal again until the problem happened again.
I decide to buy a new GPSmap 60CSX and found they were no longer being manufactured but there was some in stock in the REI stores in the US and the bargain price of US$219.
So I had my daughter in the US buy one for me. I received it a few weeks later and did some comparisons between the old and new units. They should be the same, they are identical model number right?
I have found out a lot of interesting things because they are not totally the same unit. Here is what I found out:
I noticed initially that there were some software difference as follows:
new / old
Software ver. 4.20 / 4.00
GPS SW ver. 2.40m / 3.00s
You can get this info from your 60CSX by entering MENU>MENU>SETUP>SYSTEM>MENU. Choose "Software Version".
After doing some research on the internet I discovered that the new unit with the "m" in the GPS SW ver.utilizes a MediaTek chip while the old unit has a SiRF III chipset designated by the "s".
The SiRF III has a excellent reputation for sensitivity, fast satellite acquisition and ability to stay locked on even in heavy over growth.
Doing a Side by side test with the two units using identical mapsets on the microSD card I found the following:
The old unit appeared to start up much faster. That is on start up it took only a few seconds on the old unit to allow you to go from the start page to other pages in the GPS.
When I moved to the satellite page it appears the old chipset allows you to go map page and the satellite page even though a satellite lock had not been fully acquired yet.
On the new unit the GPS stayed on the start page a longer time than the old unit.The difference here was considerable 07 sec. for the old unit and 58 sec for the new unit.
It delay appeared related to the mapset size. As the mapset used got larger (2-3.5 GB) the GPS with the new chip took longer time to load the mapset than the old chip.
On a performance basis the old unit acquired satellites much faster than the new unit and the satellite signal strength on the satellite page was much stronger with the old unit.
This was done outdoors with the units side by side. If you Google it, others with more knowledge of the different chipsets than me state the SiRF III chip has a higher sensitivity than the MediaTek chip.
This basically translates into getting a satellite signal faster and keeping it under obstructed conditions.
The new Garmin 60CSX with new MediaTek chip also does NOT work with nRoute. This was confirmed with Garmin when I contacted them. They appeared very aware of it when I gave them the Software versions.
They state that the new software is not compatible with the old nRoute. They do not acknowledge they changed the chipset. That apparently is Proprietary Information.
Map transfers appear to work correctly. Other functions appear to be the same.
This could explain why the 4.20 Software version is not available for the GPSmap 60CSX on the Garmin website.
Version 4.20 is a software patch to get the units with the MediaTek chip out the door but one could easily conclude that the software/chipset upgrade broke the USB output if you needed to use it with nRoute.
The discussion with Garmin was lengthy, Initially they said they could do nothing about it and it was just a problem with old unsupported nRoute software. and new GPS software upgrades.
They had difficulty addressing the fact that the old 60CSX with the 4.00 software version worked without problem.
Garmin finally agreed in exchange to take my new 60CSX and give me a "like new" 60CSX with the 4.00 software version and the SiRF III chipset.
Related to this Garmin also offers an Exchange/Repair of the 60CSX. All Exchange/Repair units returned to the customer will be GPS SW ver. 2.40m MediaTek chip. A quote from Garmin "There will be no way in the future to get a device of that type unless you are able to buy from a store that somehow still has an old version."
My own tests later after my discussion with Garmin indicated that the new 60CSX appears to work with Mobile PC.
On a less important note the old GPS had the Americas Recreational Basemap V4 installed while the new unit had installed AMR Standard Autoroute Basemap NR 3.00.
The old basemap had considerably more detail than the new one. More roads and non business points of interest.
I recognize that this essentially gets overwritten by the installed maps but I, with my more detail is better attitude preferred the old basemap.
In an earlier discussion with Garmin they stated that I was stuck with the new less detailed basemap and it could not be changed even though the new Garmin Instruction Manual makes mention of the presence of the Americas Recreational Basemap.
This information may be useful to other GPSmap 60CSX owners who may be experiencing performance problems. It is not often you get to compare two versions of the same unit side by side.
Look after your 60CSX GPS with high performing the SiRF III chipset you may not be able to get another one.
If you research it on the internet you will find others who are less than happy with there repair exchange unit once it has been returned with the MediaTek chip.
I understand Garmin in their wisdom are using these new chips in the newer handheld GPSs so they are not getting any better.
Thanks for the comparison report! I will regret the day I am forced to buy another device. For my style of GPSrin', the 60Csx is perrrrrrrfect!
Again, thanks to all here to contribute to my enjoyment.
Mike
The second 60csx has on the bottom of the box "Garmin reserves the right to make changes to it's products at any time in an attempt to deliver the best product." This is where the other box says SirfIII. Also, firmware has an "m".
I also have a 62st. Both the 60csx with the SirfIII and the 62st (no idea what chipset - now its not SirfIII) go with me. The 60csx seems to do a little better job of giving a clean and accurate track and does a better job of showing true speed. I have a graph of 60csx and 62st on @m@zon for elevatiom and speed for both on same graph. If you want to check them out. Both were calibrated right before hike for altimeter and compass.