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New Garmin Premium Models.

I've been waiting for over a year to see when Garmin release their next all singing, all dancing satnav. My 3790T has been hanging on by a thread for a couple of years since dropping it and damaging the USB port. Updates are quite difficult to keep it connected.

The only new top end model has been the Nuvicam which appears just another version of the 3598LMT-D. I bought the 3598LMT-D a year ago but returned it over the limited internal storage that meant I had to start pruning files to get the current map! or the necessity to buy an SD card which I object to and do not see why I should pay to add a slower media that is easy to lose. The Nuvicam also has a ridiculously short 30 min battery life.

I'm beginning to wonder whether the drift towards smart phones means that we have seen the last of the super-duper stand-alone satnavs? Anyone have any inside info or opinion please?

Comments

  • menhir 113 Points
    No inside info here....I'm on the outside looking in, too.

    I've been wondering the same thing. It doesn't look like Garmin is interested in offering a similar replacement device for my aging waterproof Nuvi 550 and because of that, I installed the CoPilot GPS app to my phone as a back-up last year in case the Nuvi died on me.

    Well, the CoPilot app is working just fine...at least as far as getting me to where I want to go. I can see why a lot of consumers may just go with the phone.
    I was at Best Buy yesterday and saw the GPS aisle consisted mostly of empty displays.

    I'd prefer a dedicated GPS for my motorcycle, but if they ain't making one I want, I ain't spending money on one I don't want.

    I'll miss my 550 when it's gone. :-<
  • t923347 532 Points
    Isn't Garmin's whole Zumo line specifically built for motorcycle use? I'm sure you have your reasons for using the 550 but if your looking for a replacement for it, that you can use on the bike and in a vehicle, I think Garmin already has that in the Zumo.
  • Boyd 1999 Points
    edited June 2015
    Chris_Sav said:

    I'm beginning to wonder whether the drift towards smart phones means that we have seen the last of the super-duper stand-alone satnavs?

    No inside info, but plenty of opinions here. ;) I don't think we have seen "the last" of them, but clearly there will be fewer updates. But you haven't said what new features you want beyond what is currently available. Garmin has always been really stingy with internal memory and I would be surprised to see that change. But it's silly to let that in and of itself prevent you from getting the 3598. Memory cards are inexpensive, just get one and forget about it. My guess is you might have a long wait if you're looking for a Nuvi with 16gb internal memory. :)

    I got a 3790 in 2010 and used it for about 3 years. It was a great device in its time with lots of innovations but it felt sluggish and the multi-touch features never worked right. The 35x0 corrected these problems with much better performance and good screen response. So any of the 35xx devices will be a nice upgrade from your old 3790.

    If you want lots of features though, a smartphone or tablet may be better. There are so many apps on both iOS and Android. Garmin has the streetpilot app (only on iOS) that is very similar to the Nuvi 35xx, I used it on my iPhone on a trip to the EU last year. It is rather expensive however, almost as much as buying a lower end Nuvi.

    I'm using an Android tablet in the car now with the OruxMaps app, but that is rather specialized since I make my own maps. In the US you can get a nice 7 or 8 inch Android tablet in the $100-$200 range. Add the app of your choice and you have a big screen GPS for about the same price as Garmin charges (a 7" Nuvi 2797 is $220). But with the tablet, you can change to a different app if you want new capabilities.

    The downside to the tablet is that there are more things to "fiddle" with and you lose the simplicity of the Nuvi, which is more like an appliance.
  • Chris_Sav 127 Points
    Principal shortfall is the failure to supply enough internal memory. The 3598LMT-D was excellent apart from that. Run to close to the internal storage being full and the satnav will run like a dog trying to write files to scraps of diskspace, I've had that on the 3790T before I removed all the crud and voice-files.

    Principal worry is the longevity of 'Lifetime Updates' which will mean very little if Garmin stop producing stand-alone satnavs.

    I don't use a smart-phone, mine makes phonecalls and that's all I want. Prefer specialist tools than jack-of-all-trades and am prepared to pay for them.


  • Boyd 1999 Points
    In that case, I suspect you will not find something that you like. What assurances could you possibly get that would address your concerns about lifetime updates? I think that is a matter of faith, and if you don't trust Garmin…..

    Garmin seems very reluctant to put additional memory in their devices, probably because profit margins are already slim.

  • alanb 556 Points
    In terms of the Lifetime map subscriptions, all we have to go on is Garmin's past history and reputation. Some folks bought the lifetime subscription for their Street Pilot when the program was introduced in 2009, and they are still installing map updates on those 8 or 9 year old devices. My main concern about the map subscriptions is with the relationship between Garmin and Here (Navteq). With the Here mapping product up for sale, and Garmin's agreement with Here expiring in 2015, who knows what might happen.

    As far as the memory card goes, I don't see using a SD card as a big issue. You can still keep the full map in internal storage and put other map related files on the SD card (such as voice recognition ASR files, JCV file, etc. That is how I do it with my old nuvi 855, and it works just fine that way. It requires a little fiddling when I do a map update, but once you get the procedure down, it isn't that bad.
  • menhir 113 Points
    edited June 2015
    t923347 said:

    Isn't Garmin's whole Zumo line specifically built for motorcycle use? I'm sure you have your reasons for using the 550 but if your looking for a replacement for it, that you can use on the bike and in a vehicle, I think Garmin already has that in the Zumo.

    Right you are, but the Zumo at 4 to $600 +++ isn't exactly a similar replacement for a Nuvi which sold for, if I recall correctly, around the $200.00 range. The 550 wasn't a motorcycle specific GPS, rather it was an outdoor use device, good for riding, driving, bicycling, hiking, water navigation...Tough, waterproof, and a long battery life. That's why I bought it...and liked it.

    It was a specialized generalist. B-)

    It didn't have a lot of bells and whistles...no Bluetooth, music, traffic, or even a jack for an external speaker. None of which I'm remotely interested in.

    The Zumo does a lot and it very well may end up being my choice if I have to buy a new GPS, (I'm taking a serious look at the TomTom rider, too.) but it's a lot I purely don't need or want to pay that much more for.
  • Boyd 1999 Points
    menhir said:

    Right you are, but the Zumo at 4 to $600 +++ isn't exactly a similar replacement for a Nuvi which sold for, if I recall correctly, around the $200.00 range.

    I guess it depends when you got the Nuvi 550. It was introduced at the $500 price point in 2008. :) http://www.gpsreview.net/garmin-nuvi-500/

    REI just had the Oregon 600 on sale for $200, although you would have to purchase City Navigator separately and it doesn't support spoken directions.
  • menhir 113 Points
    edited June 2015
    I found the original box for my Nuvi550 with the receipt still in it.
    Darn. I should clean out my office closet once in a while. :-?

    ...I bought it new (not refurbished) from Amazon in May 2009 for $259.98.
    I had no idea they ever went for $500.00. Wow.

    I think you made a very good point earlier: "If you want lots of features though, a smartphone or tablet may be better."

    The reason I prefer a dedicated GPS is because of it's relative simplicity and it's use-specific design. Yes, my CoPilot app works fine, but I really have it on hand in case my senile Nuvi decides to take a nap...which, due to a problem that I've never tracked down, It does from time to time.

    Actually, so do I. @-)
  • Boyd 1999 Points
    Things have really changed with pricing on these devices. I remember back then you could get significant discounts on the Nuvi from places like Amazon shortly after a new model was released. These days, not so much.
  • Chris_Sav 127 Points
    So basically it looks like I have to buy a top-end model that is barely fit for purpose or think about phones?
  • Boyd 1999 Points
    Personally I don't agree that devices like the 3598 are "barely fit for purpose". But if I did feel that way, I wouldn't buy one.

    You don't need to buy a "phone" to use apps, as I posted above, there are some very nice Android tablets in the $100 to $200 range. Or you could buy a phone with no carrier plan and just use it as a tablet.
  • menhir 113 Points
    edited June 2015
    Don't overthink this...

    Honestly, a suitable SD card is not that expensive and probably costs far less than the alternatives, a tablet, a phone, and even some of the GPS apps out there. It's a much simpler fix, too. Plus, you still end up with a dedicated GPS.

    I can understand some frustration that a manufacturer would not include enough memory capacity even for their next upgrade. :-w Still, the practice is not specific to GPS devices. Digital camera manufacturers for example, assume that you'll buy an SD card and leave it to the purchaser to determine what capacity he/she needs and therefor is willing to pay additional money for. For me, a casual point-n-shooter, it means I don't have to pay for the same memory requirements as a compulsive photo/movie fanatic who needs the additional capacity.

    I bought an SD card for my Nuvi shortly after I purchased it. It's come in handy, since.

    As far as "slower media," I don't thing I've ever noticed a difference in practice on my GPS.
  • sussamb 829 Points
    edited June 2015
    @Chris_Sav

    Bear in mind the class of card anyway is concerned with write speed, a nuvi is reading from the card. Garmin's advice on sd cards is here:

    https://support.garmin.com/support/searchSupport/case.faces?caseId={18331ce0-4af6-11e3-f27b-000000000000}

    Note note 2.

    For Garmin's own CN mapping (which I've used on a card for a while now) I've seen no issues.
  • Boyd 1999 Points
    Map drawing speed on a card vs internal memory has been discussed here a number of times and there is no consensus. Several of our most advanced members insist it makes no difference.

    I think there is no doubt that it is slower to access a map on a card, and I can clearly demonstrate this. I make my own maps that have an extreme level of detail and really push the limits of the Nuvi, especially as you zoom out and display more of the map.

    If I put one of these maps on a card, the Nuvi becomes unusable, it cannot draw the map fast enough. It usually crashes then - I remember getting the message that the Nuvi had lost satellite reception a couple times just before it completely died.

    But the same map works fine when I put it in internal memory. I have tried this on a Nuvi 1350, 3790 and 3550. But, as I said, these maps push the limits and City Navigator is something very different. The Nuvi has been optimized to work with City Navigator, so I suspect that the access speed of the card is not so much of an issue.
  • lmacmil 91 Points
    Chris_Sav said:


    I'm beginning to wonder whether the drift towards smart phones means that we have seen the last of the super-duper stand-alone satnavs? Anyone have any inside info or opinion please?

    I read a while back that sales of standalone GPS units have been falling 15-20% a year for several years. At this point, I can't imagine why a smartphone owner would spend money on a new standalone GPS. I still use my 1350 for long trips so I can load waypoints but unless one is out in the middle of nowhere without a data connection, Google Maps does everything I need a GPS to do. If/when my 1350 ever dies, I'll most likely not replace it.

  • menhir 113 Points
    ]
    At this point, I can't imagine why a smartphone owner would spend money on a new standalone GPS.
    There are still some reasons. As I've mentioned, I often use my Garmin GPS on my motorcycle. The "buttons" are bigger, the screen is easier on the eyes and, importantly, I don't have to take my gloves off to operate it...etc.

    For my car, and for general use, I'll probably use my CoPilot app if my old Magellan GPS Fails. For riding, I'd still prefer a dedicated GPS...preferably a Garmin.
  • Boyd 1999 Points
    menhir said:

    As I've mentioned, I often use my Garmin GPS on my motorcycle. The "buttons" are bigger, the screen is easier on the eyes and, importantly, I don't have to take my gloves off to operate it.

    With the new trend smartphones (as much as 6"), the buttons can be pretty big. Glass capacitive screens can be a problem with gloves, but Garmin seems headed in that direction anyway with newer Nuvi models, Oregon 6xx and Monterra. :)
  • privet01 228 Points
    edited June 2015
    I just think of the potential for accidents when someones trying to use their phone for it's original use (communicating with others out of earshot) and trying to make the correct exit when they are in one of those areas where the engineers used a bowl of spaghetti for their interchange model. <<grin>>
  • Boyd 1999 Points
    Well if someone is inclined to do that, I don't think it matters whether they're using a Nuvi or a smartphone app for navigation. ;)
  • Zemartelo 207 Points
    The major problem for Garmin with the Nuvi series (I think the problem transfers to phones as well) is what else can they add to the device to justify a new purchase?

    What new feature is out there not available that Garmin could add to a Nuvi device and claim it the 2016 model?

    Last year as far I can tell the only new feature was foursquare Poi's or something?



  • t923347 532 Points
    How about a faster processor, more internal storage for maps that get bigger every update, higher resolution screens, and user adjustable speed limit warning indicator, to name just 4 things that come to mind quickly.
  • I'd love to see a nav display that is overlayed with a NEXRAD weather radar loop. Even the latest NEXRAD static image would be quite useful superimposed on the nav screen so I could see what lies ahead.

    It's very possible that something like that already exists and I'm not aware of it.
  • Chris_Sav 127 Points
    t923347 said:

    How about a faster processor, more internal storage for maps that get bigger every update, higher resolution screens, and user adjustable speed limit warning indicator, to name just 4 things that come to mind quickly.

    Spot on; also a newer storage format than FAT32 on cards which will remove the 4gig file size limit maps are currently knocking on (3.8gig), basically a machine that is a little more future proof than the current trend of bolting on more extras to an already obsolete system.

  • Boyd 1999 Points

    I'd love to see a nav display that is overlayed with a NEXRAD weather radar loop.

    Garmin has had that for a long time. They offered it with their old MSN traffic receiver, a service they discontinued a few years ago. There have been a number of models that had weather radar using Sirius/XM radio. Most of these have been discontinued but I believe a couple Zumo models still have it.

    Then their connected devices, the 1690 and 1695 featured it as a built-in app. Currently you can get it with their smartphone link app: https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/on-the-go/apps/smartphone-link/prod111441.html

    image

    I have never cared for the way they implemented this however, the map is ugly and the radar images are over-processed and smoothed. This is another argument in favor of smartphones though. I really like the Radarscope iPhone app and use it all the time. It gives you the raw, unprocessed data: http://radarscope.tv
  • valtopps 31 Points
    I here people talking about copilot app on there phone but does that use up data?
  • t923347 532 Points
    AFAIK you donwload maps to your device via WiFi so it doesn't use any of your data. One reference is at:

    https://copilotgps.com/us/support/android/
  • Boyd 1999 Points
    The major GPS apps allow you to install the map data on your phone, so no data is used for navigation. But they have additional features like traffic, search, etc. that use data. I used the Garmin StreetPilot app in Europe last year and mostly kept my phone in airplane mode so that no data would be used. This caused a few features to become disabled, but basic navigation worked fine.
  • Kevin_hutch 115 Points
    What is the big deal about creating more space in the internal memory just who uses all those multilingual help and voice files and all those vehicle icons. An amazing amount of space can be freed.
  • Chris_Sav 127 Points
    edited June 2015

    What is the big deal about creating more space in the internal memory just who uses all those multilingual help and voice files and all those vehicle icons. An amazing amount of space can be freed.

    Fine if you know what you are doing and are confident deleting core files, most are not. Garmin know of the limitations and that all voice files are not necessary and should provide downloads with just one voice file, that fit into the space available in internal memory, especially on an out of the box machine. Extras can be downloaded later.
  • privet01 228 Points
    If I had to download them one at a time to try them out that would be annoying. I suppose they could provide them in a manner that makes them available to stream and preview, but that's more manpower and costs. I know it seems like a simple thing, but just the increase in administration for these little "perks" adds up for large companies.
  • alanb 556 Points
    What Garmin devices need is a simple file browser/manager on the unit itself.
  • menhir 113 Points
    valtopps said:

    I here people talking about copilot app on there phone but does that use up data?

    The CoPilot maps are stored on your phone. I elected to store the maps on my SD card because of the memory requirements. If you use some ad-ones like traffic for example, you'll use up data. Otherwise, no problem.

    Although I've been playing around with CoPilot for the last year, just a couple of days ago I decided to let CoPilot lead me on an out-of-state trip. The destination(s) were mostly rural and required that almost all the routes were off-highway with frequent road changes. Co-Pilot did fine.

    For what it's worth.
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