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Issue using multi destination routes with Nuvi 760

Sorry for such a long post, but needed to tell the whole story...

So today my wife uses our new 760 to deliver some dinners to several families in need. She was driving around areas we weren't familiar with and she had written directions. I said, hey, you can use the new 760 to route you and she said great. Well, it turns out it wasn't so great!

I created a route with the 3 addresses she needed to go to starting from our home location (so there were 4 entries in the route.) I checked the route before she left to make sure they were correct, and they were by verifying with the written directions she got from each person.

Going to the first address was not an issue. She got there fine. However, the Nuvi never really said she arrived. She started to follow the route from there to the next house and it kept telling her to turn around to go back. No problem, I told her that might happen and to just go in to the route and delete that stop. (By the way, any better way of handling that situation?) So after deleting that stop it started routing her to the next address.

Then she was on the freeway and the unit locked up. She came up on an accident and was at a standstill and called me. She said the unit was locked up and wasn't sure what was going on. I told her how to reset the unit and that fixed it. It came back on and immediately started routing her again. All was good. (But why did it just lock up?)

Then I get a call about 20 minutes later - she was pretty upset with the GPS. She had gotten totally lost and the GPS locked up again. She had to call the 2nd family to get directions from where she was. She said as she was driving to the address, there was a roundabout and after she went around it, the unit suddenly started routing her back to the freeway to go to the 3rd and final address, telling her to make a U-Turn. Well, she hadn't arrived at the 2nd address and was still at least 1/2 a mile away. She went to go into the unit and it locked up again. Another lock up - what's going on?

When she called, she was on her way to the 3rd address but wasn't sure where she was and if it was even routing her correctly. Needless to say, she was pretty upset and I was too. This is supposed to be one of Garmin's flagship products and honestly, I haven't had great luck with it. This is the 3rd 760 I have had in the last month. The first one was probably ok (I thought there was a problem with the speaker, but turns out that it's normal). The 2nd unit completely locked up and wouldn't boot (the splash screen showed up distorted and it wouldn't move past it). Now with this one, I can only trust it if I am routing to one address at a time. The whole reason I jumped up to a 760 was to get multi destination routing.

So, can anyone tell me how the multi destination routing works for them? The route it came up with when I set it up was correct. It's just that in the middle of the route, it totally freaked out and started routing my wife incorrectly. I am running the latest firmware (3.10) with 2009 maps. This is not my first Garmin. I had a Quest that was awesome. The reason I sold it for the Nuvi was the tiny screen and it was a pain to find things on it and I could only load a small set of maps at one time. The Nuvi is awesome in terms of use and UI, but it seems pretty unreliable for actual navigation under certain circumstances.

Costco currently has a 680 for the same price as my 760 ($350). I know it doesn't support the multi destination routing, but honestly, I am not sure if I will even use it on the 760 anymore. I even thought about going for one of the lower units that are much cheaper ($150-$200). If I won't be using mutli-destination routing like I thought I would, then why pay extra for it? What about the other brands? Magellan, Tom Tom - I am seriously thinking about ditching Garmin after this. Someone talk me down from the ledge. :D

A disgruntled Garmin fan,
Bryan

Comments

  • Tim 1481 Points
    It is often very difficult for someone to relate over text/forums exactly what steps they were taking to diagnose what might have happened. It is even more difficult when it is a third party story.

    So as far as what happened and why... I have no idea, and all I can really say is that hasn't been my experience with the route feature on the 700 series. It works quite well (as designed) when I use it.
  • bacevedo 0 Points
    Thanks Tim - I know it's hard to troubleshoot or give advice like this.

    What I really want to know is if others have similar issues with multi destination routes, the unit locking up or just completely skipping a stop.

    I still am annoyed, though, that the unit is so picky about exactly when you have arrived at a destination. You have to practically drive over the exact coordinates before it says you have arrived. I think they need to relax that a little and assume that if you are within, say 25 yds, you probably have arrived. This is espcially true for shopping centers where you go to a parking lot and may not drive to the actual front door or entrance.

    Bryan
  • I use multi-destination routing on a 760 several times a week and have never had a problem with lock-ups.

    But the problem you describe with the intermediate points not matching their real location is unavoidable. Due to street numbers often being off, it's not that uncommon for the GPS to think that I haven't got to the waypoint and not automatically moving to the next one. The fix is as you described - go into the route and delete the current waypoint. I end up doing this every few weeks and have never seen a lockup due to deleting waypoints on an active map.
  • bacevedo 0 Points
    Thanks for the info. I know the addresses are not exact, and that's just it - Garmin should know that, too. They shouldn't make it so that you have to drive to the exact coordinates before it says you arrived. There should be a bigger buffer, because in reality, once you get to within 100 ft, you should be able to eyeball where you are to go next. It's not like you need the GPS to keep telling you to drive another 50 ft.

    I know some people want the unit to drive them to the front door, but from the mapping data that I have seen, what it thinks is the front door is usually not accurate. And when I use waypoints as a way to force a route, like a highway I want to use, I don't want the unit to try and have me make a u-turn because I didn't drive exactly over the point I chose on the map. Again, the buffer should be such that once you get within a certain distance, it considers that arriving. I don't want to have to pull over on the side of a 75 mph highway to delete the waypoint. Nor do I really want to have to try and do it while driving that speed.

    For example, if there are no other turns or instructions, other than, "Arriving at Home, on right", then the GPS should be smart enough to know that I am probably there. But as it is now, it tells me 2 or 3 times that I am arriving at home on the right. I pull in to my driveway and it gives me no further instructions, but it never ends the route. I am easily within 50 feet on the GPS to where my home is, but it doesn't consider me there. It's not like this is a geo-caching thing where I need to be pretty exact. They already state that auto-navs already have road snapping - why not make it waypoint snapping, too?

    Bryan
  • It seems like the GPSr does have a concept of "close" because in my experience I don't have to be right on the waypoint for it to be considered finished. But perhaps you're right that it should be a little more tolerant of drive-bys. For example, maybe once it realizes that you're going further away from the waypoint it moves to the next one (if there is a next). Or perhaps if you stop for more than 60 seconds (or whatever) then it assumes that you're at the waypoint. But having been in software development for 25+ years, and trying to make things more automated, I know that it's not always as easy to work out the details as it appears on the surface. There's always a lot of what-ifs. For example, if somone really did want to go exactly to a waypoint then I could see a lot of complaining if the GPSr all of a sudden started taking them to the next waypoint. There would have to be a notification (or a "is this ok?" prompt) before moving on. As we'd always say, the devil is in the details.
  • bacevedo 0 Points
    Yep - I hear ya! I was a software developer for 12 years before becoming an information security guy. I know how hard it is to make everyone happy. We also had the 80/20 rule, get 80% of the functionality for 80% of the people.

    Sometimes, though, I think the Garmin nuvi's were designed too much by engineer types. You know how we can be. We want the thing to be dead accurate and literal in everything it does. However, that's great for certain things in life, but for others, in practical real world examples, it needs some wiggle room. I can just here a pencil pusher saying - You said a shorter route, I gave you a shorter route, even though you get on and off the freeway 3 times, it's shorter. My Garmin Quest with less "intelligence" seemed to pick better routes.

    Since I am not a GPS unit, I don't know the exact coordinates of where I am, or the exact coordinates of where I am going. I know the address, and once I get close enough to it, I consider myself there. They already have this in the unit with proximity alerts. Just add another setting that allows me to choose when I want waypoints to be "arrived at". Or Maybe just a setting of "Geo-Caching Mode" and "Regular Navigation Mode". They both require different levels of accuracy. I just feel that the Nuvi is sometimes too much in the "Geo-Caching" mode so it can be really accurate, but if I am in a car, I can't get that close because of those darn sidewalks and curbs. :)

    In the end, I am going to keep the 760. I love the unit, and for the most part, it does it job well. I guess I just thought that after 3 years of owning a Quest, that the state of the art of GPS navigation would have jumped up even more than it has. Instead, I now have a unit with more bells and whistles than I really want in my gps unit. Don't care about mp3, photos, currency converter, calculator, etc. So in that sense, the device has become much more sophisticated. But I still think they are tweaking their routing heuristics to come up with routes and functionality that comes closer to what a human would produce and they still have a little ways to go.

    Bryan
  • Yep - I hear ya! I was a software developer for 12 years before becoming an information security guy. I know how hard it is to make everyone happy. We also had the 80/20 rule, get 80% of the functionality for 80% of the people.

    Sometimes, though, I think the Garmin nuvi's were designed too much by engineer types. You know how we can be. We want the thing to be dead accurate and literal in everything it does. However, that's great for certain things in life, but for others, in practical real world examples, it needs some wiggle room. I can just here a pencil pusher saying - You said a shorter route, I gave you a shorter route, even though you get on and off the freeway 3 times, it's shorter. My Garmin Quest with less "intelligence" seemed to pick better routes.

    Since I am not a GPS unit, I don't know the exact coordinates of where I am, or the exact coordinates of where I am going. I know the address, and once I get close enough to it, I consider myself there. They already have this in the unit with proximity alerts. Just add another setting that allows me to choose when I want waypoints to be "arrived at". Or Maybe just a setting of "Geo-Caching Mode" and "Regular Navigation Mode". They both require different levels of accuracy. I just feel that the Nuvi is sometimes too much in the "Geo-Caching" mode so it can be really accurate, but if I am in a car, I can't get that close because of those darn sidewalks and curbs. :)

    In the end, I am going to keep the 760. I love the unit, and for the most part, it does it job well. I guess I just thought that after 3 years of owning a Quest, that the state of the art of GPS navigation would have jumped up even more than it has. Instead, I now have a unit with more bells and whistles than I really want in my gps unit. Don't care about mp3, photos, currency converter, calculator, etc. So in that sense, the device has become much more sophisticated. But I still think they are tweaking their routing heuristics to come up with routes and functionality that comes closer to what a human would produce and they still have a little ways to go.

    Bryan
    Yep, having more tweaks for things like destination proximity is probably the way to go. I bet that these things are already easily tunable - if they were designed correctly to begin with. The key is hiding these programmable settings just enough that the common user won't accidently change things that they don't understand, and geeks like us can get in and tweak away. The Windows Registry is a good example of that. Mom and pop would never touch it, but I have no qualms with screwing around in there.
  • kwhunter 0 Points
    The GPS unit is as good as the maps loaded into it; Garmin doesn't make maps but buys them from Navteq, who is to blame for unaccuracies.
    I use multi-destination routing on a 760 several times a week and have never had a problem with lock-ups.

    But the problem you describe with the intermediate points not matching their real location is unavoidable. Due to street numbers often being off, it's not that uncommon for the GPS to think that I haven't got to the waypoint and not automatically moving to the next one. The fix is as you described - go into the route and delete the current waypoint. I end up doing this every few weeks and have never seen a lockup due to deleting waypoints on an active map.
  • alokeprasad 102 Points
    I think the OP's issue is not so much about inaccuracies in the maps, but with what the Nuvi considers as "arrived". The map may have the coordinates (and directions) correct, but will you have to drive over the destination to be considered as arrived? or getting within 100 feet (or 50 or whatever ..) good enough?

    That is a design feature that Garmin has a control over.
  • s2800021 81 Points
    I have the following observation, and this is the case for both 660 and 760. As an example, say I am routing from A to B. On arriving at B, the GPSr will announce "You have reached B, on left.". At this point, I noticed that the routing mode, at times, is off automatically. But in most occasions, it is still on and has to be off manually. Not sure why there is no consistent behavior here.

    I think it is important for the GPSr to set the routing mode to off when it senses that it has reached point B, especially for the 760, so that the user is aware that the next instruction coming from the set is meant for the next routing point, when multi-point routing is set.
  • bacevedo 0 Points
    I am wondering if 3.10 could be causing the lock up? I never had the unit lockup until 3.10.

    In addition, after talking with my wife and viewing the tracklog of where she went, I think the unit got confused during a wrong turn she made. It started to recalculate her onto a road that was closed. She didn't really know how to use the detour function and kept driving in the general direction she knew she needed to go. The unit kept telling her to turn around to take the closed road, even though the way she was currently going was part of the original route. The unit was trying to get her back to the recalculated route, instead of doing a full recalculation which would have included the road she was on. I think if I was in the car with her, I would have been able to hit detour and get it back on track. I can see by the tracklog where the unit locked up and where she reset it - there are big jumps in the track log and it just has a straight line across those points.

    As for my other issue with when the unit marks you as arrived. This is wishful thinking, I know, but what would be nice is to have a button (either on the map itself or on the main menu next to detour) that says something like "Skip", that basically removes the current waypoint and starts immediatly routing you to the next waypoint. This would only need to be there when using multi-destination routing.

    This would be helpful in 2 cases. One, the unit doesn't think you have arrived at your waypoint and won't start routing you automatically. This wouldn't occur as often if it had a bigger buffer, but would still be helpful. The second case would be when you no longer need to go to that waypoint at all. Maybe you are the traveling salesman and that stop was canceled while you were in route. I know this functionality exists by going into the route and editing it to remove the point. I just think it would be helpful to have a quicker way of doing it for the current waypoint.

    Bryan
  • tomj03 0 Points
    I would stay clear of multi-destination routing at the beginning. Just show her to pre-plan all of them in the form of Favorites or POI (4 , even 10 is not many).
    I got this idea from a poster on a site: name your destinations like D1_desc, D2_desc, D3_desc ...(desc=a brief description), she will pick them in that order (D1,D2,D3...).
  • bacevedo 0 Points
    Good suggestion. I was thinking about doing that, but then figured, hey, that's what I got a 760 for, so it can do the whole route at once. From now on, I'll do as you say. I like the naming convention, too.

    For me, I'll try the routes and see what it does. I think I will try a multi-waypoint route to work and then delete the first waypoint when I get close to it. Then try and get off course to see if it locks up after recalculating. The only problem is my commute is only 6 miles. May not be complicated enough for it. We'll see.
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