Why does everybody use "3D" maps when driving? Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:57 am
I just bought my first GPS systems (Nuvi 200 for me, TomTom ONE LE for parents), but haven't set up either. Before, I used Google Maps in 2D form. Because of that, I suspect I'll feel most comfortable driving around with my GPS in 2D maps. Nobody else does this. Why? I feel that 2D maps actually give a more clear picture of what's around you. Does nobody else agree? Does 3D give an advantage that I'm not aware of? Thanks
You won't like my response, but here it goes any way. 2D or 3D, it doesn't really matter, you shouldn't be looking at the screen while driving. That's why I keep saying in many of my posts that one of the essential pre-requisites to the safe use of automotive PNDs is TTS - Text-to-speech, whereby the name of the streets are called out, not just 'turn right.'
'Turn right' is fine when you have only one street/exit ahead of you ... but in a busy downtown core, where streets follow one another every 100 yards or so, TTS is essential IMHO.
To me, the premium vendors ask for the TTS functionality is money well-spent.
Joined: 28 Nov 2007 Posts: 25 Location: Monument, CO
Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:34 am
I guess I like the 2D the best. Like it was said you get a clear view of the surrounding area. I explorer off road / trails / really really back roads...so seeing what is around me is nice. I might see a road ont he GPS that looks interesting and take it. No worry on hitting someone in my use...Plus less destraction then a paper map on your wheel..lol
Plus calling Street names out would be annoying to me...I never plan to use a GPS to route me to a place (I would say 1% use there for me), I can do that myself. That is not why I use a GPS.
For city use, it is nice to see other routes I can take if there is a backup.
I only used a Laptop with Streets & Trips before on Trips in NV (Ghost Towning).
Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 183 Location: Philadelphia
Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:59 am
I agree with Tim - 3D is more representative of what I see out the window.
With ADD, it is natural to be looking around at all places almost at once. So looking at the TT on top of the dash is not a distraction for me, just part of my normal looking around.
@PhillyChip: I don't think you can say that looking at the TT is not a distraction, because it is. If you're looking at your TT, albeit only for a second or two, your eyes aren't on the road, are they. So it is a distraction, but one that you're willing and comfortable to accept.
I am not sure what you mean by 'normal looking around' - but normal looking around while driving is the perfect recipe for a crash. A second or two is all one needs to avoid some idiot running a red light.
There are ample statistics available out there that prove that the great majority of accidents are caused by so called 'distractions' like cell phones, eating and sipping coffee while driving, talking on the phone (hands-free or not.), and of course GPS's.
Any way, I don't want to unduly berate the issue, but to me, looking at the GPS screen is just as bad as watching a video while driving. Your attention, in whole or in part, for a second or a few seconds, is taken away from your driving, and that is an undeniable fact.
When my TomTom starts talking I 'glance' , not look, at the navigation arrow and the distance number to prepare myself. If the next turn is clear cut, then it's fine - otherwise at distance of 150m or less, I have to double check the map arrow to be sure I don't miss the turn. Trusting the voice only, can be disastrous especially for countries where streets are closely spaced.
Well, obviously, I'm not making any headway here, and that's OK. I'm not about to fall in the same pitfall and become argumentative about a simple, very simple issue, but I'll take one more tack on it.
I'll just say this one more time, and then I'm out of here - I give you guys the last word, how's that!
ANYTHING THAT TAKES YOUR ATTENTION AWAY FROM THE ROAD IS A DISTRACTION.
Is this so hard to understand?
I DON'T CARE IF YOU LOOK, GLANCE ... WHATEVER YOU DO, ANYTHING THAT TAKES YOUR ATTENTION AWAY FROM THE ROAD IS A DISTRACTION. That is fact.
That YOU choose to accept that distraction for the perceived benefit of enhanced navigation, so be it, that's your choice. But please, don't negate the facts - if you do, then we can no longer have an intelligent debate over this.
Road accident statistics speak for themselves, hence the reason why a growing number of jurisdictions have banned GPS's on windshields. But no, you're both right, I'm wrong and so are all those jurisdictions that took pre-emptive steps to protect the public. As for those who ended in the hospital or worse on account thereof, they too were just as right as you both!
Look - I'd be lying to you both if I said that I NEVER look at the screen while driving. Of course I do, but I try to rely on the verbal instructions as much as possible. And if I happen to miss a turn on account thereof, then so be it - the PND will recalculate the route and bring me back on course in due course.
I have lost someone dear to a road accident. Whether or not the accident was entirely attributable to the PND is anyone's guess. But there is one thing that I know for sure, without any doubt whatsoever: Anything that reduces your attention from driving will affect your ability to react, that simple. Be it a cell phone, a cup of coffee, food, a GPS, any distraction that takes away your attention from the road, albeit for just a few secons, recudes your ability to react promptly and timely.
Happy Trails! Drive Safe!
Over and out!
Last edited by Uncle Ben on Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
By the way with NavCore 7, you can turn the status bar vertically, the arrow is very visible in white over a blue font, doesn't take much effort to see it.
A recent study in Europe by TYO of people who rent cars showed that those who didn't use a navigation system in the car submitted 12% more claims than those who used navigation systems.
Joined: 28 Nov 2007 Posts: 25 Location: Monument, CO
Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:54 pm
Yes, some people will watch the GPS, but if you put it in the right spot...guess this depends on the car you should be able to look through the GPS if that makes sense. Kinda like the HUD is some autos. (and no I do not mean actually through it, but you can tune it out and in and pay attention to both...then again this might take years of practise with video games)...LOL
Still much safer then trying to fold a paper map....
I keep it in 3d for more detail. I also use this on my motorcycle and if you have your GPS setup right you can monitor unfamiliar roads and not worry about about a blind curves ahead.
Joined: 13 Dec 2007 Posts: 5 Location: Dublin, Ireland
Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:28 pm
Quote:
A recent study in Europe by TYO of people who rent cars showed that those who didn't use a navigation system in the car submitted 12% more claims than those who used navigation systems.
... which does make sense if you think about it. People trying to navigate unfamiliar cities using scribbled notes or printed route maps are typically spending more time trying to correllate what's on the paper with the street names around them. If you've ever tried to follow the detailed instructions for (say) MapQuest through a busy town/city you know exactly what I'm talking about!!
Quote:
I DON'T CARE IF YOU LOOK, GLANCE ... WHATEVER YOU DO, ANYTHING THAT TAKES YOUR ATTENTION AWAY FROM THE SCREEN IS A DISTRACTION. That is fact.
I'm pretty sure that you meant "away from the road" here but I completely agree ... this really isn't a black-and-white issue. Hunting for street signs at 30mph also takes your attention away from the traffic in front of you though. Personally I feel much happier - and find it much less distracting - glancing at a screen which clearly shows that the street that I'm looking for is 30 yards away and is the 2nd right.
That's not to say that you're wrong though, clearly programming a route whilst driving is a lot more distracting and so there should be a feature to give any driver foolish enough to try a gentle shock!! I would however disagree that watching the map is comparable to watching a DVD whilst driving. There are no "action scenes" on a map, no explosions, no subtle twists of the plot, no compelling story line to get absorbed into. All you have is a map and an icon that represents your relative position ... and I really struggle to believe that that plot will be "coming to a theater near you"
When my TomTom starts talking I 'glance' , not look, at the navigation arrow and the distance number to prepare myself. If the next turn is clear cut, then it's fine - otherwise at distance of 150m or less, I have to double check the map arrow to be sure I don't miss the turn. Trusting the voice only, can be disastrous especially for countries where streets are closely spaced.
I agree with glancing ... I do the same. I don't agree with "trusting the voice only, can be disastrous..." - do you care to explain this Tom.
Personally, for me I don't think looking at over at the GPS isn't any more of a distraction or time consuming than looking down at the speedometer.
I guess symantics are at play here. What you're saying then is that glancing is OK, and I agree with that. I glance at the GPS while driving, but rely mostly on verbal instructions to navigate, because I think it's safer to do so. But glancing is fine, I don't think I ever said otherwise.
So occasional glancing at side mirrors is a road hazard ? I think the reverse is true.
No, glancing at your side or rear-view mirrors is not a hazard but if you keep looking there for too long it might be, but we both know that, don't we. Glancing at the GPS is fine too, examining the screen to see where you are in relation to some icon you see ahead of you could be a problem.
Cheers!\
HappyTrails! DriveSave (with TTS! )
Last edited by Uncle Ben on Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
A recent study in Europe by TYO of people who rent cars showed that those who didn't use a navigation system in the car submitted 12% more claims than those who used navigation systems.
Yes, so, what does this have to do with the price of butter? The argument was never about validating the GPS as a tool but rather how to use it safely. I still think that the more your attention is one the road and not on the screen the better; and TTS does help keeping your attention on the road and less on the screen.
Yes, some people will watch the GPS, but if you put it in the right spot...guess this depends on the car you should be able to look through the GPS if that makes sense. Kinda like the HUD is some autos. (and no I do not mean actually through it, but you can tune it out and in and pay attention to both...then again this might take years of practise with video games)...LOL
Still much safer then trying to fold a paper map....
That was the whole purpose of my argument those '...people who watch the GPS...' with the 3D graphics, some GPS's now coming to market with buildings and city icons showing, very very nice .... Watching and examining the screen is not the same as occational glancing.
Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Posts: 29 Location: Toronto Canada
Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:44 pm
People's use will differ because of the different brain patterns. Some prefer audible instructions (text to voice), some prefer visible instructions. I'm a visible driver. I can't stand noises when I'm driving, be it yakking from passengers, talk radio, beeping, whatever. I have my GPS on 2D map, with one single beep for upcoming turn. I have it on north orientation rather than path direction just because that's the way my brain works best.
Each person has to determine their own setup and how it works best for their purposes. My GPSr stands up perfectly in the dash, I can see it through the steering wheel, and is right beside the odometer. I only glance at it when I hear a beep, I don't drive staring at the unit. The joys of living/working downtown in the city is that you're rarely driving over 10KPH anyway!! LOL
As with any device, drive safely according to the conditions on the road. This includes smoking, cellphones, coffee AND GPSrs.
People's use will differ because of the different brain patterns. Some prefer audible instructions (text to voice), some prefer visible instructions. I'm a visible driver. I can't stand noises when I'm driving, be it yakking from passengers, talk radio, beeping, whatever. I have my GPS on 2D map, with one single beep for upcoming turn. I have it on north orientation rather than path direction just because that's the way my brain works best.
Each person has to determine their own setup and how it works best for their purposes. My GPSr stands up perfectly in the dash, I can see it through the steering wheel, and is right beside the odometer. I only glance at it when I hear a beep, I don't drive staring at the unit. The joys of living/working downtown in the city is that you're rarely driving over 10KPH anyway!! LOL
As with any device, drive safely according to the conditions on the road. This includes smoking, cellphones, coffee AND GPSrs.
I work best with a plethora of input, audible, visual, even tactile (vibrations).
Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Posts: 29 Location: Toronto Canada
Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:48 pm
infama wrote:
I work best with a plethora of input, audible, visual, even tactile (vibrations).
Great, then I'll be your passenger and yell all the directions at you, complete with finger pointing, arm waving and the odd rib-poke! *LOL* You wouldn't last 2 miles!!
I work best with a plethora of input, audible, visual, even tactile (vibrations).
Great, then I'll be your passenger and yell all the directions at you, complete with finger pointing, arm waving and the odd rib-poke! *LOL* You wouldn't last 2 miles!!
based on this thread, while driving around today, I took Dave's advice and switched my TT XL-S to 2D.
Though not a HUGE difference, I do like the 2D better for just "driving around." I actually bought my gps so that I could see side streets off of the main arteries that I drive on (to help find potential customers.)
Of course, the zoom (out?) feature resets itself in a few seconds, really not allowing you to see too far from my current position.... so the 2D mode seems to allow me to see "further" away.
I think for navigating to a point, the 3d is probably better for matching what you see through the windshield.
Joined: 29 Dec 2007 Posts: 60 Location: Bel Air, Maryland
Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:48 pm
" normal looking around " ??????????
You should be looking around 100% of the time.
If you are incapable of looking around while driving, please at all costs STAY OFF A MOTORCYCLE!
Nothing scares me more than the drivers whose head is LOCKED straight ahead. If you come upon one from either side, you have NO WAY of knowing if they might even know you are there.
I keep my GPS mounted where it is in my periphery, so I can glance at it while still keeping an eye out on the road ahead and to either side.
Map choice? 2D for me.
But seriously, " looking around " is the safe thing to do.
If you don't look around, you cannot play the " WHAT IF " game. If you don't play the " WHAT IF " game, you are not as safe a driver as you could be!
It takes years of practice to successfully play the " WHAT IF " game, but once you master it you will be a smarter and safer driver.
I use 3D because it's easier to see at a glance (just for you Uncle Ben ).
I use my GPS just like any other driving tool. It helps me get from here to there, and it does so more safely and more accurately than seat of the pants navigation. I can't imagine anyone just sitting and staring at the screen while driving... I suppose it happens, but isn't exactly exciting to just watch. I just include it in the array of instruments that I scan all the time... speedometer, tachometer, temp gage, rear view mirror, side mirrors, and now GPS (with TTS ) I certainly don't feel any more distracted than I did before I got it, and far less so than when talking to even a single passenger in the car.
@Berserken: No, the topic was fine, 3D or 2D - I'm the one who steered the dialogue astray... and ended up with all kinds of followers! It's been quite interesting actually! Too bad we couldn't keep it going for a while longer, it was fun, wans't it.
I change my mind about 3D.
I now use 2D, I think I am better in control that way. With 3D you are completely at the mercy of the GPS, beside I can never remember the roads even driving over and over on the same area.
I find in areas I'm familiar with I like the 3D view or 2D north up, in other areas I prefer the 2D track up.
It's nice to have the option to change it to meet your preferences.
I do glance at it, and feel 100% of the people that have navigation devices do.
I have not yet seen a sound only navigation sytem.
Some find it distracting, but I enjoy looking at the screen while working my way through traffic, talking on my cell phone and enjoying a nice cold beer.
You won't like my response, but here it goes any way. 2D or 3D, it doesn't really matter, you shouldn't be looking at the screen while driving. That's why I keep saying in many of my posts that one of the essential prerequisites to the safe use of automotive PNDs is TTS - Text-to-speech, whereby the name of the streets are called out, not just 'turn right.'
'Turn right' is fine when you have only one street/exit ahead of you ... but in a busy downtown core, where streets follow one another every 100 yards or so, TTS is essential IMHO.
To me, the premium vendors ask for the TTS functionality is money well-spent.
Ben, Quick question. Have you ever eaten (includes drinks), listened to music, changed the radio station, talked on a cell phone (even hands free) etc.... These are all distractions. IMO, the worst of them all is eating. I'll bet you that has caused more accidents then people realize.
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but I completely agree ... this really isn't a black-and-white issue. Hunting for street signs at 30mph also takes your attention away from the traffic in front of you though. Personally I feel much happier - and find it much less distracting - glancing at a screen which clearly shows that the street that I'm looking for is 30 yards away and is the 2nd right.
)
So sorry!
) I certainly don't feel any more distracted than I did before I got it, and far less so than when talking to even a single passenger in the car.
