Peebs, I received an "official" e-mail from Garmin tech spewing the same update features as on the site. Called and spoke to the tech himself who indicated that the faster lock time should be noticable, but said there was no "hidden" download in 2.5, just the result of general improvements thru the last 3 firmware updates. I don't buy it.
That is bullshit!! If this improvement has happened over the last three upgrades then I would hate to think what the performance was under 2.3!!
2.5 made such a huge difference that there had to be something specific to that release. In my case - and I believe with others also - we are talking a quantum change. In my case from Minutes to seconds - that is 60 times as fast!!!!
I am still thinking that they knew - although they denied - that there was a serious lock on problem with 2.4 and have rushed out 2.5 without proper beta testing to cover their tracks. Maybe what Tim is now seeing is some chip specific instability that is still in the release.
the post reception signal processing CAN be changed and I still believe, in my case, that that is what has happened.
Exactly, which begs the question of why many of us are getting different results. Your signal improved, other people report no change, and I got worse results.
Tim,
If, as you say, some got improvements, some got nothing and others, like yourself, got worse performance it would lead one to suspect that 2.5 was rushed out to clear a known but denied problem without proper beta testing. The result is an instability that is chip/unit specific. Garmin are not the first electronics company to fall into that trap. The trouble they now face is that instead of having one problem across the board, they have many!!!
I haven't checked myself, didn't have the usb cable with me. It may only apply to the 200 series, since the post references the 260 (in nuvi forums "260 2.6 update". I may have spoken out of turn. Let me know.
Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 86 Location: Maidenhead Grid FN32wd
Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:26 pm
My 750 sat for approximately 14 hours overnight. This morning it started up outside the vehicle in about 15 seconds after the maps loaded. I got about the same results when I let is sit for 9 hours. So I'm assuming the following:
0-14 hours is too short a duration for the GPS to exhibit the slow startup problem. But 2.50 seems to have fixed if it hasn't been off too long.
If you let it sit a "long" period of time, the unit appears to search for satellites. It seems to try different combinations of satellites before finally giving up and going quiet. It then asks if you want to continue where upon it begins to search again. Eventually it finds a satellite, and probably loads information on exactly which satellites are visible. This is what I believe is happening. I could be way off, but after playing with it for weeks, this is what I think is happening. 2.50 appears to fix the acquisition problem if the unit is off for as yet an undetermined amount of time. Beyond that time, the unit appears to have an almanac problem; where it physically located, and what satellites should be visible. I had a quick start this morning with 14 hours off, so now I'm going to leave it off for approximately23 hours, and see what happens.
Satellite acquisition times Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:46 pm
Hold your finger over the upper left corner of the screen above the satellite bar code. After a minute the satellite acquisition screen will be displayed.
One needs about 4 satellites to get a fix. Note which satellite numbers have a problem.
I have had no problems acquiring satellites for my Garmin Nuvi 750. However, for the past week I have had severe problems getting enough satellites acquired for my Sirius Radio. That problem seems to occur every year around this time.
Also, one of our satellites was LOST. It is expected to crash into the earth's atmosphere very soon and hit the ground.
Its possible that some of you in similar locations may be affected by this loss. When you indicate problems, please indicate approximate location. All this could be related in some way.
The previous post is correct. Now running Quickfix II via firmware 2.6 update. Just tried it. Don't know if it actually is supposed to increase sensitivity as well, but now have 11 satellites, none under 80% lock. See how it does the next few days.
2.6 so soon after 2.5! Still no admission of the lock-on problem on the u/g sheet, quietly slipping sirfinstantfixll into the splash screen and the system diagnostic screen!!
You better believe that, despite their denials, Garmin knew about the lock-on problem! They have had a MAJOR software problem which they have tried to keep under wraps. Hopefully 2.6 will fix it but I would have preferred a bit more openess from the Company.
I haven't been able to do a proper test of 2.6 because it has had a chance to warm up during the upgrade process but it will be interesting to see how much difference it makes. 2.5 for me was the BIG improvement but obviously not for everyone. If 2.6 does fix the problem across the board then Garmin have been lucky - a software fix (2.5) that only improved SOME units is a software engineers nightmare!!
2.6 so soon after 2.5! Still no admission of the lock-on problem on the u/g sheet, quietly slipping sirfinstantfixll into the splash screen and the system diagnostic screen!!
You better believe that, despite their denials, Garmin knew about the lock-on problem! They have had a MAJOR software problem which they have tried to keep under wraps. Hopefully 2.6 will fix it but I would have preferred a bit more openess from the Company.
I haven't been able to do a proper test of 2.6 because it has had a chance to warm up during the upgrade process but it will be interesting to see how much difference it makes. 2.5 for me was the BIG improvement but obviously not for everyone. If 2.6 does fix the problem across the board then Garmin have been lucky - a software fix (2.5) that only improved SOME units is a software engineers nightmare!!
Yes, I am an electronic engineer who was involved in IT and in RF tropospheric scatter communications.
I think that the 760 at least was rushed out with software for a different receiver - perhaps their own. For some reason they had to change to the Sirf receiver but let the product go with less than optimum software hoping to clear it with a quick u/g. They then rushed out 2.5 which was not properly tested and the results were a nightmare - worked on some (mine), made no difference on others and screwed up the rest (Tim's). They then rushed out 2.6......... we shall wait and see!!
It is good that Garmin have at least tried to clear the problem but it would have been much better if they had come clean and acknowledged the problem with an assurance that a fix was in the pipe line. Didn't someone report that a Product Engineer had said that a fix was in the works to be released in the next couple of months?
No Bob, just an engineer who thinks that when you pay good money you should get at least a product that works properly. I also think that when a problem arises the Company ought to come clean with it's customers. In general, people who are kept in the loop are prepared to be patient if they know a fix is coming. How many people have NOT bought Garmin because of all the complaints and speculation that has been put forth on this forum alone?
Don't treat customers like mushrooms - kept in the dark and fed on bullshit. Only in this case we didn't even get fed!!
Regards,
Peebs, I think I understand Garmin's issue, as well as those from "other manufacturers. If they were to openly announce that YES, we screwed up, but a fix is perhaps two months away, how fast would that travel around the message boards and how many people would NOT buy the product, even tho for all intents it basicly did it's job and not everyone was effected in the same way. For instance, TT is NOT going to say on it's website "Hey Guys, I know we released Home vers. 2.2, but don't bother trying to update right now because we've found some issues that need to be taken care of. We're taking mac support down so that we don't inconvenience our customers. Watch for a revised update in 30-45 days." Ain't gonna happen since they've been taking such a ration of S*** for not having Mac support. What engineering wants and what the market demands is a constant push and shove.
Peebs, I think I understand Garmin's issue, as well as those from "other manufacturers. If they were to openly announce that YES, we screwed up, but a fix is perhaps two months away, how fast would that travel around the message boards and how many people would NOT buy the product, even tho for all intents it basicly did it's job and not everyone was effected in the same way. For instance, TT is NOT going to say on it's website "Hey Guys, I know we released Home vers. 2.2, but don't bother trying to update right now because we've found some issues that need to be taken care of. We're taking mac support down so that we don't inconvenience our customers. Watch for a revised update in 30-45 days." Ain't gonna happen since they've been taking such a ration of S*** for not having Mac support. What engineering wants and what the market demands is a constant push and shove.
Actually,
TT has not nmade a big splash about Home 2.2
I cant even find the announcement on their website. Seems like a stealth introduction.
Despite teething problems, the now DO have Mac support... a claim they could not have honestly made last week, as v 1.6 was obsolete.
It is clear for marketing reason that they rushed the introduction though, even if Mac support is light years better than before. At least it is workable now.
Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 86 Location: Maidenhead Grid FN32wd
Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:59 pm
peebs24 wrote:
Yes, I am an electronic engineer who was involved in IT and in RF tropospheric scatter communications........
Interseting.... I use tropo scatter in amateur radio running a digital mode called JT44. It pulls signals out of seemingly dead air. Cool stuff!
peebs24 wrote:
.......I think that the 760 at least was rushed out with software for a different receiver - perhaps their own......
I think it took me a day to realize my 750 wasn't ready for prime time. Was it a rush to maket in time for the holidays? Competetion? I believe there are so many features that could be added to the 700 line, as well as the rest of the nuvi line.
My point being, Infama, that engineers do not make good salespeople. (My apologies, peebs)
Engineers make far better salesmen that salesmen make engineers. In fact, most big engineering companies do have engineers as sales people. Leaves the sales people to sell cigarettes and the like!!
Seriously, If I ever had the problem that Garmin had on the release of the 760 I may have waited a little while to make sure that I was on the road to a fix but | would have said something in view of the speculation going around. I sure as hell would not have told Customer support to say that they haven't heard of the problem. There will be a next time and customers do have memories. Incidentally, although I am an engineer, I was also the President of the Company so I can speak with some authority about making such decisions!!
Peebs, as long as Garmin did not CONFIRM the problem, they left it up to the "little guys" to argue about whether a problem really existed, since it didn't affect all units with all production dates. Certainly did not affect sales as severely. Most potential buyers don't research much and thus will never really know the issue it was. Most will assume it's just "sour grapes" from a competitor when they see a complaint, especially if their only research is done on Amazon! Don't see how their image would have improved if they had comfirmed the 700's were flawed. Only for those SERIOUS users, as found here. WE already understand, tho, that new tech ALWAYS brings issues. Why do you think I never buy a new model car the first year it's released? Doesn't mean it's useless trash, but you KNOW there are going to be some issues. They just don't "blab" about it to everyone who asks.
Hi Gatorguy,
I take your point. Maybe I have always been involved in more serious product lines - non consumer!!
It will be interesting to see how Tim's unit reflects 2.6 as he had one of the units that didn't respond to 2.5.
My own first impression of 2.6, after trying a warm start is that, in my case, it shows little or no improvement over 2.5. Could even bit marginally worse. This is not a complaint because 2.5 or 2.6 gave me a satisfactory lock on time. It might however show that they have had manufacturing variance problems. Time will tell. I hope readers report in on their erxperience of 2.5 and 2.6.
Regards,
One thing Infama mentioned in a different topic is that for max benefit, leave the unit on for up to 24 hours at first. Makes sense if the software is looking to track satellite movement opver a period of time. It would seen as tho QuickfixII should give a lock as quickly as the older Quickfix.
As I said, it is early days to really see there has been an improvement with 2.6. I intend to check it in the morning as a coldish start and then leave it for a couple of hours to let it get that sat data into memory.
After leaving the 760 with 2.6 on for the best part of a day to stabilise the sat position I let it cold soak in my garage overnight to do a cold start test today.
Resuilt: Far worse than with 2.5. It took the best part of 10 mins to acqire the sats whereas with 2.5 the lock on was in seconds.
I would be interested to hear how Tim made out with his 760 after upgrading to 2.6.
Regards,
Peebs, do you have "powered by sirfIII QuickfixII" on the opening splash screen when booting?
Hi Gatorguy,
Yup, got the full Monty!
I still think that they have a problem of production batch variance.
Tim plus 2.5 - disaster
Me plus 2.5 - fantastic improvement
Me plus 2.6 - worse than 2.5
Tim plus 2.6 ???
If they do have production batch variance then they have REAL trouble; what fixes one, buggers another and vice versa.
Regards,
As I had reported earlier, my initial turn on after 2.6 was significantly better. I'm waiting until tomorrow to see what happens after about 72 hours turned off.
OnDaRoad, I haven't seen any other complaint similar to yours. Begs the question as to whether you may possibly have a flawed unit. I might contact garmin again and advise them of your problem. I'm beginning to suspect that yours may be unique to your particular unit.
Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Posts: 35 Location: Ottawa, ON
750 Aquisition time Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:41 pm
I am on a long trip with my 750. Every morning after 15 + hours of shut down, the 750 shows all green bars within 5 seconds of my hitting the "agree" (I also use a PIN). Sometimes I am greeted by all green bars immediately after the "agree" and I don't dally entering my PIN etc. I am on 2.5 and think I will hold off on 2.6 for now for fear of screwing this up. I will see what happens with 2.6 or whatever version is out when I get home in late March. The 750 has performed flawlessly so far.
Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 86 Location: Maidenhead Grid FN32wd
Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:54 pm
gatorguy wrote:
OnDaRoad, I haven't seen any other complaint similar to yours. Begs the question as to whether you may possibly have a flawed unit. I might contact garmin again and advise them of your problem. I'm beginning to suspect that yours may be unique to your particular unit.
You now, I have contacted Garmin repeatedly asking them to either fix it, or refund my money. But they alwayt suggest I try the latest update before sending it back. Today, I fired it up after 36 hours of cold time, this time running 2.60, and it was ready to navigate in approximately 20 seconds. So, this is looking good. I have it running outside now with an external antenna connected, so it's receiving a lot of satellite data. Maybe this is the fix.
After 2.6 my issues with the 760 are gone. Really fast acquisition times now.
Thanks for the info Tim. I am going to give it another test later today but yesterday, after overnight cold soak, it took 10 mins compared to as many seconds with 2.5. 2.5 was a HUGE improvement for me so, so far, 2.6 has been a disappointment but we shall see.
Most other people seem to be seeing the same sort improvement as you are showing so it is strange that my unit is so out of step.
Regards,
PS. Tim, how do I load photos from my desktop onto the forum? I made a pretty good and simple car mount for the Garmin range.
Maybe I was too quick to speak... After getting a lock within seconds of turning it on... now it is down to tracking three satellites and keeps chirping out "lost satellite reception".
Maybe I was too quick to speak... After getting a lock within seconds of turning it on... now it is down to tracking three satellites and keeps chirping out "lost satellite reception".
Oh Oh! Was it stationary between logging on and the drop out? Over what period of time? Self powered or in a vehicle? If self powered was the battery OK?
I just ran my test having soaked the unit (760 plus 2.6) in the car for 24 hours at temps between 0 deg C and +2 deg C. The unit is mounted in the car behind an Athermic screen. My procedure is to unplug the 760 from the car supply, position the car in My Secret Place and then plug it in. I let it load the maps etc and then start the stopwatch when the Pin Code screen appears. I stop the watch when the legal screen comes up. Today, it took SEVEN seconds by which time I had 7 sats and a declared accuracy of 6 metres. Testing this way eliminates the time the unit might take to process the pin code which is not needed in the secret place once the unit has identified it ie. logged on sufficiently to fix it's position.
Yesterday, the exact same test took 10 mins (I timed it on my wristwatch as I didn't have the stop watch handy so maybe an error of 5 - 10 secs either way).
With this result it is slightly better than the result I got with 2.5 (10 secs) for the same test at similar temperatures.
I haven't a clue what is going on but I shall repeat the same test tomorrow and let you know the results.
Best regards,
Oh Oh! Was it stationary between logging on and the drop out? Over what period of time? Self powered or in a vehicle? If self powered was the battery OK?
Stationary, about 20 minutes, self powered, fully charged battery.
Oh Oh! Was it stationary between logging on and the drop out? Over what period of time? Self powered or in a vehicle? If self powered was the battery OK?
Stationary, about 20 minutes, self powered, fully charged battery.
Hi Tim,
Not many clues there!!!
I will re-run my test again tomorrow to see if I can get repeatability. When I put the car back in the garage (warm start) it was locked on before the Pin screen even had a chance to show. I am still of the opinion that they have a production batch variance problem - God help us!!
Regards,
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