Nuvi users, eat your hearts out ! Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:47 am
TT 3rd kicked butts in Boston.
Another unscientific test, but very different result compared to GPSMagazine this time.
Video (IE only, doesn't work for FFox, for me).
Click here.
You've got to be kidding me. That was a test??? I can't start to tell you how flawed it was. TomTom beats Garmin in routing?? HAHAHA!
They pick one part of one map and try to make a blanket statement with a few minutes of use? What a joke!
Anyway, just kidding. I ignore the routing tests anymore, unless someone can come up with a multi-battery test of various areas around the US, Canada and Euriope that fairly weights the results. Haven't seeen one yet.. I think there's been ample reports from all over on weird routes and fastest times from everyone.
However, I think it's pretty hard to argue the fact that the TT product line as a whole is very appealing - better functionality, tons of features, nice design, all at a cheaper price, all the way from your entry level device to the top of the line.
As for the validity of the test, albeit not a scientific test, for me it simply confirms my own experience with a Garmin 260 vs a 720 - the routing engine on the 720 was much better, and I mean much better. Heck, on the 260, it didn't matter where I placed a way point to avoid part of a route, it kept trying to get me back onto the initial route, no matter what. Around and around the mulberry bush ...
On the 720, in most cases the initial route outlined was fine to begin with. In cases where I didn't agree with some of the routing choices, at least I could work with it - there was enough functionality there to do what I set out to do, with ease.
Some might say that I am not comparing apples to apples. True, but price wise I am! From a consumer perspective, that counts a lot.
So it's just a matter of time before Garmin loses sight of TomTom in its rear-view mirror and finds itself chasing a target instead of evading it.
You've got to be kidding me. That was a test??? I can't start to tell you how flawed it was. TomTom beats Garmin in routing?? HAHAHA!
They pick one part of one map and try to make a blanket statement with a few minutes of use? What a joke!
Anyway, just kidding. I ignore the routing tests anymore, unless someone can come up with a multi-battery test of various areas around the US, Canada and Euriope that fairly weights the results. Haven't seeen one yet.. I think there's been ample reports from all over on weird routes and fastest times from everyone.
Totally agree, just poking you!
Clearly, the final conclusion is that it mattered little, as they were all similar in performance! This is what we know in practice anyway.
If you search hard enough you can always find reviews that agree with what you want to read.
I don't disagree with you.
But I would like to point to Garmin followers:
1- G is not as great as you think it is.
2- A 700$ GPS can't beat a 170$ ONE. What a shame !
After all that's YOUR money, not mine.
If you search hard enough you can always find reviews that agree with what you want to read.
I don't disagree with you.
But I would like to point to Garmin followers:
1- G is not as great as you think it is.
2- A 700$ GPS can't beat a 170$ ONE. What a shame !
After all that's YOUR money, not mine.
I couldn't agree more. When one takes an objective look at what value you get for the buck, it's a no contest, sorry! I'm not saying this for one product in particular but rather looking at the product line as a whole. And that's why TT is gaining market share and will continue to do so, unless Garmin wakes up to the fact that its offer no longer commands the higher price tag.
Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 544 Location: Bloomington, Il
Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:30 pm
Many of you know me as an avid TomTom backer but I had different results in Boston. I was trying to return a rental car and the rental car company gave their address which I entered into the TomTom. I was also testing out my Navigon 2100 but I just put down the airport as the destination. For some unexplained reason the TomTom took me into downtown Boston instead of to the Airport and I finally had to rely on the Navigon to get me where I needed to go.
Now in all fairness to TomTom I probably entered the street address wrong or picked the wrong street. Some blame probably goes to the car rental company for suggesting I enter a street address rather than just the airport which probably would have worked fine on the TomTom.
But it WAS a bit tense as my OTHER navigator was asking me "Why the h--- are you going downtown?
Does a TT 3rd and a TT920 give out the same routing as does the Nuvi 350 and the Nuvi 750?
I don't think his argument was that a $160 TomTom beat a $700 Garmin. I think the point was that a $700 GPS didn't do better than a $160 one. I think we all know an increase in price doesn't get you better routing.
I'm not sure it is a bad thing that the GPS companies put the best stuff they have, for the primary purpose of the device, all the way through the introductory models.
There are examples however of how more money does get you a better route... subscribing to live traffic services, and things like TomTom IQ Routes both enhance (or in the case of IQ should enhance) the route quality for an additional price.
Oh yes, stick with your Nuvi 360, I will do the same with my TT510.
Make the GPS people working hard to deserve our hard earned money !
No more gimmicks, just Navigation Quality, pure and simple, if they want our $.
If ours break we will buy the cheapest replacement that do the job. Deal ?
This NBC video, which has now been seen by millions and millions of people – as matter of fact, I think it’s already on YouTube – is an affront to Garmin, literally.
Come on folks, let's have a reality check here, OK – an entry level TomTom 3rd Edition beating the crap out of a Garmin 760 in two separate tests, video-taped, by very very credible people... That must hurt! Come on, that must hurt big time!
I can only hope that this will send Garmin a wake-up call – and I repeat what I said before, for emphasis sake – a wake up call that their products no longer command the price premium that they’re asking. The heart and soul of any GPS device, aside from its ‘high sensitivity chipset’ (whatever that is) is its ability to bring you to destination in the most efficient manner based on your routing selection criteria. If a $170 device does that as well or better than a $700 device, then what is it here that is so hard for Garmin to understand?
YourFun2 - I agree with you, keep your 360, unless you want to upgrade to TT One 3rd Ed. Just kidding, I'm kidding!
Oh yes, stick with your Nuvi 360, I will do the same with my TT510.
Make the GPS people working hard to deserve our hard earned money !
No more gimmicks, just Navigation Quality, pure and simple, if they want our $.
If ours break we will buy the cheapest replacement that do the job. Deal ?
Joined: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 303 Location: Central California
Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:40 pm
Tim wrote:
I'm not sure it is a bad thing that the GPS companies put the best stuff they have, for the primary purpose of the device, all the way through the introductory models.
I don't think this has been a matter of choice by the manufacturers. The choice they do have is to improve the maps they use and incorporate things like speed limits, comuter jams, known road work etc. If they did this, they could make a quantum leap ahead of the others. Instead we are given marginal increases that just keep up with a natural progression.
Tomj, I actually lived in Maine for over 20 years. But yeah, it's cold!
Thought I'd pretty much stay out of this one and watch the misinformation go by. (Especially the oh-so-wrong Garmin gouging. Jeesh, don't you guys, other than Tim, ever actually CHECK street pricing? A 750 for $285 is overrpriced??)
The choice they do have is to improve the maps they use and incorporate things like speed limits, comuter jams, known road work etc.
They are at the mercy of their map supplier to build that data. And when GPS companies are building their devices with maps they got from their mapping supplier a couple of years ago it doesn't help.
My stance on this video is as follows:
The important take-away is that each of the devices got them to their destination within a few minutes of each other... They each took different routes from time to time that didn't agree with what the "local" would have done... Each person got to their destination. Completely ignoring brand... they showed that an entry level device (similar to a Nuvi 200) at $150 can get you there just as well as a device that costs four times as much.
Exactly! That is why we are seeing both of the major mapping companies in the process of being purchased by companies who want better access to that data to further enhance it.
I just wish Garmin could do something about their Canada pricing and get Unc and Tomj off my back. In the US, Garmin has a cheaper nav than TT (albeit for only a dollar or two) and have SEVERAL priced less than the One XL. But not in Canada!!
I just wish Garmin could do something about their Canada pricing and get Unc and Tomj off my back. In the US, Garmin has a cheaper nav than TT (albeit for only a dollar or two) and have SEVERAL priced less than the One XL. But not in Canada!!
To be fair, Garmin only dropped prices in the last few months. When we first started at this, Garmin was indeed gouging. No longer the case, but it will take a while for that realization to filter thru.
Infama, they were serving their stockholders, pleasing the market, making the maximum use of assets. You know the drill. . .
Granted,
but we were discussing public perception, not business rationale. Besides, they now see it more in ther business interest to defend market share rather than maxxxing profits right now.
I couldn't agree more. When one takes an objective look at what value you get for the buck, it's a no contest, sorry! I'm not saying this for one product in particular but rather looking at the product line as a whole. And that's why TT is gaining market share and will continue to do so, unless Garmin wakes up to the fact that its offer no longer commands the higher price tag.[/quote]
I just got a G NUVI 660 based partly on my bro using four generations of Garmins and browsing the net. I'm completely underwhelmed w/ the slow hardware and clunky software. I wonder if I can send back the Garmin. I do like very much the bean bag style friction GPS dashboard holder.
Then again, by starting a price war selling product at a loss (in operations) in the US, with Garmin the primary target, they've done themselves no favor. Prices are basicly in freefall now. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see TT's margin at less than 2 percent, perhaps even by next year. Too many players with small profit margins doesn't allow much for R&D. You'll likely see even more product rushed to market before it's ready. A little news snippet from today:
TomTom's share price fell 14% today following their first quarter results and an announcement of a revised profit forecast for the year. TomTom has revised its sales annual sales forecast down from a February estimate of €2.2 billion to €1.8 - €2.0 billion.
Although TomTom continues to grow this news will cause investors to take stock, even with TomTom's strong market position it is clear that they are unable to control the declining street selling prices and margins are falling as a direct result.
TomTom still expects to ship 2.0 million PND's in Q1 2008 but this will generate revenue of €260 million - €270 million, lower than Q1 2007 with an operating margin falling to a single digit. The acquisition of TeleAtlas will doubtless further impact profit margins once it is cleared by the European Commission
Oh, Gator, please, stop it. Garmin is over priced, has always been and hopefully competition will continue to bring their prices down to a more realistic level. \
As for TT shares dropping, I've said it before but I'll say it again. As far as I'm concerned, chipset manufacturers and map providers have a very very bright future. But GPS manfuacturers, while they may indeed have a few good years lying ahead, I think their gravy train will soon come to an abrupt halt.
I think it's just a matter of time before GPS chipsets, together with OnStar-like services, are part of the standard feature on any car, all cars, even the cheapest car. Within two years, I bet you dollars to donuts the average price of a GPS device will be around $100, with the high-end selling around $200 if that.
Uncle Ben, I KNOW what you're up to, but I'll bite anyway. LOL! Makes for a good discussion.
I don't think it's so much over-priced as fairly priced. Tom Tom, as I think you've noted before (tho I could be mistaken) has been selling at a operations loss in the US for three years in a row. Only thing making it possible is charging Garmin-like prices in Europe. As a result, PND's are becoming throwaway devices. It's really going to pressure the sale of upgraded maps. About as cheap to buy a new device as a new map. You're probably correct on pricing. Standard run-of-the-mill units will probably be in the $100-150 range by late next year, with high end going for sub-$300. Probably one of the reasons we've seen Garmin particularly active in partnerships ranging from Kenwood to Panasonic to Palm (originally a TomTom client), development of the nuviphone, and licensing of nav-tech to several phone manufacturers. I'm sure they see the writing on the wall as well as we do. Good thing is they have a warchest of a couple billion dollars in the bank to spend if the right opportunity comes around. TomTom is pretty well committed with the likely TA purchase and can't well afford PND's to continue to fall in price and profit margin. With the likely addition of a third map supplier, their profits may continue to be pinched for the foreseeable future.
Oh, Gator, please, stop it. Garmin is over priced, has always been and hopefully competition will continue to bring their prices down to a more realistic level. .
I agree, UB, it's only a matter of time until GPSs are a commodity like PCs.
Only the nimble and smart survive in that environment.
Gatorguy: Yes, as I have noted before, losses at TT for three consecutive years, but they show a substantial profit for 2007! There annual report is on their web site for anyone to peruse. I think TT made a very very wise decision in buying TeleAtlas. I think the shareholders of TT can take comfort in the fact that, in the eventuality that GPS sales decline substantially over the years, particularly in the automotive sector, that the TeleAtlas will be there to provide a steady flow of income. What I mean here, is that the demand for GPS chipsets, and consequently the demand for map data, will continue to grow exponentially ... but I doubt very much that that GPS devices as we know them today will be around for very long - I'd give it five years max.
And no, my post was not a gator bait ...but now that you mention it...
Except that I don't believe that TA is turning a profit is it? Additionally the EU may require that they sell the archived map database to a new supplier, who will end up COMPETING with them.
"UB - Oh, Gator, please, stop it. Garmin is over priced, has always been and hopefully competition will continue to bring their prices down to a more realistic level. "
It's happening right now. About 10 days ago I paid $339.00 from Amazon for a NUVI 660
and last night it was $304.00. Amazon has a thirty day price match so in another 20 days I'll call and get a refund for the difference in price then.
Joined: 02 Feb 2008 Posts: 123 Location: Chicago, IL
Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:57 am
Just wondering, has anybody tried entering the routes in Google or Mapquest?
The second route the Garmin and TT were close, Magellan took a strange route.
But on the first test the Magellan took the more direct route, Garmin zigzagged and TT chose something completely different.
They said that TT was the only one to find that street name, but they both went the wrong way down a one-way street.
I really don't see this as a good test because off all the traffic they encountered. If they had traffic information or if they had historical traffic data then I might be better.
Except that I don't believe that TA is turning a profit is it? Additionally the EU may require that they sell the archived map database to a new supplier, who will end up COMPETING with them.
Actually they are, albeit a modest one, nevertheless a profit.
But one has to look beyond the bottom line to appreciate the real worth of this Company. They've been pretty innovative, especially over the last couple of years, and that costs money. They're also doing somersaults to gain market share ... that to is costly because they have to devote more time and energy to improve their product offering and overcome the criticism in North America. I think they've improved tremendously over the last two or three years (in N.A. that is)... at a cost. Who knows, time will tell. But long-term, I stand by what I said earlier - I think that the chipset manufacturers, map providers and navigation software developers have a brilliant future; but GPS manufacturers, with intensifying competition that seemingly is ever increaing, I think they'll see their profit margins progressively dry up over the next few years, a trend that has already started; but the biggest threat will come from the auto industry. Let's face it, like AC was destined to only a few high-end cars decades ago, now the cheapest cars come with AC. I'd be willing to bet that <5 years, every car sold in the world will have a GPS device built-in, which will work in tandem with OnStar-like services. Yup, the gravy strain is loosing steam and will soon come to a halt.
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