What kind of navigation are you looking to do where you need to navigate to a set of coordinates versus an address. That might determine a few different options for you.
Garmin 660 and 760. better yet the upcoming 880. The Garmin 5000 has a huge 5"screen, but is not really portable. The Street Pilot 2700 is expensive but has a 7inch screen.
Many Magellans and the Mio 520T
Navigon 7100 or 2100Max. Better yet, the upcoming large screen 8100 (5 inches)
Joined: 04 Jul 2007 Posts: 1419 Location: Long Island
Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:29 pm
The new Magellan Maestro 5310 also has TTS and a 5" screen and live traffic by subscription (Includes a 3 month free subscription ). I believe all the Maestros sense when you are stuck in traffic and offer a rerouting option. I don't know about routing by coordinates though. My 3100 does not allow that input.
I think 5" is becoming the new black...........
Last edited by patruns on Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
What kind of navigation are you looking to do where you need to navigate to a set of coordinates versus an address. That might determine a few different options for you.
I participate in outdoor events held in distant rural areas often on farms or fields with no readily available street address.
The organizers of these events have recently started providing GPS coordinates in their written directions.
In which case all the TomToms are out. They can't navigate to any area very far from a mapped road. There are several Garmins and even Magellan's that may serve your purpose. I'll defer recommendations to Tim or other users more familiar with off-road navigation.
In which case all the TomToms are out. They can't navigate to any area very far from a mapped road. There are several Garmins and even Magellan's that may serve your purpose. I'll defer recommendations to Tim or other users more familiar with off-road navigation.
So, if the nearest highway is a mile away, is that too far off the road?
Joined: 04 Jul 2007 Posts: 1419 Location: Long Island
Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:57 pm
The display might assist you as you get closer to the area on the road where the location is but you would not be able to rely on the unit for instructions after that. You would basically have to find your own way off road and just keep looking at the display to see if you are getting closer or farther away........
The TomToms will not route you to just any set of coordinates. If it's too far from the mapped road (and yes, 1 mile is way too far), it will simply display "no route found". It will not get you there.
Patruns, looking at the display on the TT will do you no good. It won't even route you a portion of the way, so there is nothing to look at. It won't even get you to the edge of the nearest road. The TT's are designed great, but not for anything off the beaten path. Garmin and Magellan, perhaps even Delorme, might be the best bets.
Joined: 04 Jul 2007 Posts: 1419 Location: Long Island
Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:24 am
Gator, after posting I had a feeling that it would not be able to route at all. I was hoping that it would route as far as it can and then quit when it ran out of roads on it's map but the more I thought about it I realized it would not route if it couldn't complete the calculation...........
The TomToms will not route you to just any set of coordinates. If it's too far from the mapped road (and yes, 1 mile is way too far), it will simply display "no route found". It will not get you there.
Does this suggest that some brands have more extensive mapping of roads in remote areas and would be better suited to handling coordinates in those areas?
Take a given set of coordinates, anywhere on earth. Ask a GPS to create a route that follows roads to that location. Inevitably, those coordinates won't fall exactly on a road.
So the GPS needs to make a decision... First, it will look for nearby roads. But, there comes a point when it is no longer to safe to assume that the closest road, or the closest point on a road is actually where you want to be.
How the GPS deals with it can be good or bad depending on the circumstances. Earlier this winter, I downloaded a list of coordinates for base lodges of ski resorts across the country. I put them into both a TomTom and a Garmin GPS. (Same coordinates.)
I asked both devices to create a route to the location. The TomTom flat out refused to create a route, saying that there were "no usable locations near coordinates" or something like that. So I went into browse map road, viewed the location of the coordinates, then tapped on a nearby road that had the name of the ski resort and went on my way.
The Garmin on the other hand created a route to the nearest map road with respect to the coordinates. Unfortunately, the nearest mapped road took me to a logging road on the back side of the mountain where it would have been another 15 miles to find my way back out around to the other side.
So the Garmin says "sure, I'll take you to the closest location to your coordinates, but there is a chance it isn't anywhere near where you really want to go".
The TomTom says "I have no clue where you want to go... give me something better to work with".
They each have their own set of evils. On one hand the TomTom isn't being helpful, and instead is being a stubborn two year old. On the other hand the Garmin is being a cocky teenager and assumes where you want to go is the closest mapped road.... which isn't always correct. The Garmin will at least guess right most of the time, but at the expense of occasionally being much more confident than it should about where you really want to go.
The best way to handle it would be a hybrid of the two approaches... For the device to say "the nearest road is [here] on the map, which is 3/4 mile from your coordinates, shall we take you to that spot and then draw you a line to the final coordinates?"
Does this suggest that some brands have more extensive mapping of roads in remote areas and would be better suited to handling coordinates in those areas?
Each brand will have some differences in mapped roads, but that makes no difference in how they handle coordinates that are not directly on a road.
Does this suggest that some brands have more extensive mapping of roads in remote areas and would be better suited to handling coordinates in those areas?
Each brand will have some differences in mapped roads, but that makes no difference in how they handle coordinates that are not directly on a road.
If the location is on a road, but that road is not included in GPS maps, then it would be treated the same as if it is not on a road at all....correct
What do I look for in the technical specifications when shopping to indicate whether a unit accepts coordinates as well as addresses?
If the location is on a road, but that road is not included in GPS maps, then it would be treated the same as if it is not on a road at all....correct
Corect.
jtelander wrote:
What do I look for in the technical specifications when shopping to indicate whether a unit accepts coordinates as well as addresses?
Unfortunately, that isn't a feature or specification most stores will list. You would need to look through the manual, but I think most of the Garmin, TomTom, and Magellan devices can.
Which brings you back to Garmin (verified), Magellan (as far as I know) and likely several others. But not TomTom (tho it will navigate to coordinates if it can find them close to a mapped road)
I'm not sure I'd agree, gatorguy. While the TomTom won't create a route to a location if it is too far from a road... I'm not sure I want it assuming the closest road actually marks the point where I want to go... as I illustrated above it can sometimes put you several miles from where you really want to be. Each approach has its advantages and disadvantages, but the fact that the TomTom refuses to make a "guess" that the closest road is actually where you want to be can have its own advantages.
Which brings you back to Garmin (verified), Magellan (as far as I know) and likely several others. But not TomTom (tho it will navigate to coordinates if it can find them close to a mapped road)
Nah Gator,
Tomj03 already told you the simple workaround. Just browse map to the GPS coordinates given, zoom the map to the appropriate level. Find the closest convenient road using visual inspection, mark it with the cursor, and navigate away!
I think a TT XL-s, Garmin 260W, or a Maggie 4250 would all satisfy his needs. For more features he could step up to a TT720 or Garmin750.
The Navigon 2100max and Mio 520 alo make interesting choices for a newbie.
Tim, since the poster indicated that his events are often in an open field, I think it's quite likely that the Garmin will get him to, or very close to, his event. The disadvantage of the TT will be it won't even try to get him close. It's not as tho he'll be the only one there. While Infama is posting his workaround, the Garmin doesn't require a workaround. It's really quite simple, no extra steps needed.
How do you "browse to the gps coordinates given" on the TT device?
3 taps to browse map option, then find coordinates, then zoom and pan map, then BINGO.
This is how I corrected the ER Mall POI today for Mapshare. ironically, that POI is only in the 710 map, not the 665map nor the 715 map...go figure.
This is no big deal Gator. While the Garmin will take a guess and do well most times, with the TT, there is no guessing, you will be defintely at the closest road intersection of your own choosing.
It will be even better with the iPaq, as you will see the land contours visially, ie if you are in a mountainous area or not!
Tim, since the poster indicated that his events are often in an open field, I think it's quite likely that the Garmin will get him to, or very close to, his event. The disadvantage of the TT will be it won't even try to get him close. It's not as tho he'll be the only one there. While Infama is posting his workaround, the Garmin doesn't require a workaround. It's really quite simple, no extra steps needed.
The 310 does it too, by the way, no work around needed, as long as the settings are properly set ... but you already know that. Note that the 310 will only do that, ONCE IT HAS BEEN DISCONNECTED FROM THE DESKTOP AND THE DAMNED DOWNLOAD COMPLETED!
I'd rather take a workaround over the GPS thinking it knows where I really want to go and possibly send me to a road miles away from where I really want to be. The workaround at least involves me verifying the destination, versus assuming (sometimes incorrectly) where I want to go without warning.
I want a unit with a large display (I need reading glasses, but can't drive with them on)
I wear progressives. I see clearly only if looking in a very precise location. I have trouble focusing closely. Where I mount my Navigon is in the left corner next to the A Pillar in my Jetta. I can view the GPS with ease there. It is not so easily viewed when in the center of the windshield. The usualy display size for inexpensive GPS is 3.5". I use a Navigon 2100 Max which is 4.3". This gives me a better perspective because I use a LOT of the information that the unit provides. At times it display 2 turns simultaneously in the lower left screen. I'm not sure if a larger display would be practical though as the 4.3" Navigon just fits the space I use it in. When I mount a GPS in the center windshield I cannot easily focus on it. The 2100 Max with it's 4.3" screen is at the maximum size that I can easily use. I don't think the 4.8" size of the 8100 would be a problem, but the larger units that are occasionally found would be.
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Text to speech
I am assuming you mean text to speech with announced street names. There can be a lot of difference in how a GPS announces upcoming turns. I can tell you that the Navigon announces turns 3 times, and ocassionally announces a 2nd turn if it will occur very quickly. My TomTom started talking (turns only, no street names) farther away and left a great deal of doubt about where to actually turn. I missed turns several times due to this imprecision. My Navigons both announce an upcoming turn well in advance (which is speed dependent) and at the turn says, "Now turn right onto East Churchville Road, for example. I did not appreciate how precise this unit was originally.
Another feature of the Navigon that I did not immediately notice is automatically variable sound volume. It is adjustable for an automatic increase in volume based on the amount of noise in the car. In my Jetta, I had to turn the volume all the way to it's minimum, because the car is so quiet. In other cars I had to turn it back up again.
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Allows input of coordinates (rather than a street address)
I had this on the TomTom One Version 3 I just sold. I found it to be less than useful. I plot routes to cemeteries (doing ancestry research). If you pick a point that it not on a road and then try to route to it, the TomTom says "cannot route to this location." I found this out initially trying to route to a Lighthouse in Havre De Grace.
There is a cemetery in Western Maryland that my TomTom won't route to by coordinates. I had instant routing success plotting the location on the browse map with my Navigon 2100 Max. So I'm no longer interested in plotting coordinates.
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Accurate
I have found that the GPS that we commonly see are all accurate ENOUGH.
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Has capability of dynamically identifying traffic congestion and provides re-routing options.
I use a Navigon 2100 or 2100 Max. They have a built in receiver (this was an option on the TT1V3) and antenna for it. This requires is activation.
Another navigation feature that many GPS now have is continuous navigation even if satellite lock is lost. I found this to be true when going through tunnels. There are some GPS that do not have this.
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This will be my first GPS
Jeff
I purchased my first GPS on Feb 13 after years of casual searching and a month of detailed searching. I have chronicled the experience here:
http://belair-pc.com/first_gps.htm
Note that originally I had put a limit on spending at $300.00. I was very pleased with my result at the time but didn't realize how exceptionally good the choice had been.
After three more months, I'm now using a Navigon 2100 Max and anxiously awaiting the TomTom 930/730 or Navigon 8100. I am a computer industry professional. I develop a certain "feel" for the way things work very quickly after more than 30 years of computer use. I've looked at many brands of GPS and find that I like Navigon best right now.
However I'm open to finding others that might be better. The 2100 Max is very much better than my 2100 had been.
The FIRST question that is must always been answered is:
How do I intend to use this device?
The answer will determine:
What features are important to you
How much you'll need to spend
Perhaps the SECOND question to be answered is:
How easy is the device to use? Will I be able to find addresses and other locations with a reasonable amount of effort?
The Third criterion of selection would be a detailed analysis of what features appeal to you.
The LAST criterion of selection may be chosen first as I did, which is how much are you willing to pay?
When I started looking seriously I was not convinced that a GPS was even a useful device. At first I wasn't particularly impressed by my first GPS (the Navigon 2100) and became aware of how good that unit was only later when I started using other devices.
In my search I did not find useful information for the way I was going to make my decision and rewarded the maker whose presentation was the most impressive and met my goals of learning.
Tim, it's quite easy to view the destination once the Nuvi has determined the route. No zooming, panning, scrolling, then searching for the nearest road. If you don't like the access road it's using, "set location" to a different spot. I suspect you'll seldom need to do that. A whole lot easier to do on the nuvi than a TomTom, don't you agree. I mean, you're not locked into using the nuvi access road, but it's likely to be correct. Beats having to manually do it every time. I don't know that manually setting an access point for a location you're not familiar with would be any more accurate if you set it yourself.
My point is that you just don't know how close the Garmin's destination might be. It might be 20 feet from a road or 2 miles from a road. It gives no feedback about how confident your coordinates will actually get you to a useable location.
Both the Garmin and Tomtom's with traffic receivers may do what you want most of the time. But traffic reporting is still a work in progress. There will be times when the service will report an accident ahead and you elect to reroute, only to find the traffic had cleared before you ever would have arrived there. Other times you may drive right into a trafffic jam, yet the problem hadn't been reported. Even when you do detour, the new route may not be any faster due to MORE traffic problems. It's certainly an assist, but definitely not completely reliable yet.
... SNIP ... But traffic reporting is still a work in progress. There will be times when the service will report an accident ahead and you elect to reroute, only to find the traffic had cleared before you ever would have arrived there...SNIP...
Unless someone was left behind to stay the course, how would you ever find out that that "the traffic had cleared before you ever would have arrived there?" If you took a detour, you wouldn't know that, would you? And your traffic receiver would continue to monitor traffic on your NEW course, would it not, not the old one ... so how would you know that things cleared and didn't have to detour after all?
But your point is well taken. In theory, the scenario you paint can no doubt happen and I'm sure it does, and it probably happens often.
Notwithstanding, IMHO it doesn't matter how long the work in progress remains a work-in-progress, to think that traffic receivers would one day be able to predict how long a traffic jam will last, given the number of variables involved (emergency response times, nature of injuries, fatalities, number of vehicle involved, nature of the road block, etc.) is more akin to the world of fiction than PND's.
Albeit not impossible, the info gathering from emergency radio broadcasts would be of mammoth proportions, and continuously evolving until the 'event' is over ... Oh man, I'd hate to be the one to write the code for this one!
So I would say this. The one with the traffic receiver definitely has more information at his/her disposal than the one without, that’s a no contest. But to think that one day traffic receivers will be "completely reliable" - I don't think so. A tool? Yes, but no more than that, just a tool; more like a marketing gimmick for GPS vendors and service providers than anything else, IMHO. Are they better than nothing ... probably! But how can one prove it ... how could I tell if my nightmarish detour was better or worse than had I stayed the course and be patient?
And your traffic receiver would continue to monitor traffic on your NEW course, would it not, not the old one ...
The traffic receiver receives data about all covered roads in the area, not just the one on the immediate route. So you could in fact find out if you looked.
Tim - yes, I agree, in theory, but in practice, when you're in the midst of it, you just take the detour and off you go, right? So how do you find out ... 1/2 to 1 hour later, 30 or 60 miles away from the detour point?
(1) Regarding updating maps - How is that accomplished? How do the various manufacturers support updating? How long do they support legacy models? (wondering how to consider "bargains" that have been on the shelf for a while.
(2) Pre planning routes - I've seen mention of planning routes in advance on the computer and uploading that info to the GPS unit. How is that done and how does one find which models support it?
(3) What is the story on refurbished (now termed "re-certified") units?
1. Some manufacturers have only download method for maps, for example TomTom. Others have map updates only on DVD or SD card, Garmin being one of those. Simply because it a discontinued model doesn't mean you can't buy updated maps.
2. Some manufacturers offer multi-stop routing on nearly their entire model line-up, TomTom quickly coming to mind, but not directly supporting building that route on computer and uploading. Some have this feature only on the up-line models (Garmin for instance), but may support route building via computer as well as on the device itself. Even fewer may also allow you to "optimize" your route for fastest computed travel time to visit each of your destinations ( for example the up-line Garmins and the HP310).
3. With prices falling for many PND's and even new models quickly being discounted, I see little reason to even consider "recertified" devices, since they are usually older/discontinued models to begin with and typically are not that much cheaper than buying a new one that includes more features and likely newer maps.
I coulnd't agree more with Gatorguy here, on all counts ... not to mention that your older re-certified devices would likely come with out-dated maps, with no free-map upgrade path. So, once you factor in the cost of upgrading the map to a more recent one, your bargain is no longer the bargain you thought it was.
Both the Garmin and Tomtom's with traffic receivers may do what you want most of the time. But traffic reporting is still a work in progress. There will be times when the service will report an accident ahead and you elect to reroute, only to find the traffic had cleared before you ever would have arrived there. Other times you may drive right into a trafffic jam, yet the problem hadn't been reported. Even when you do detour, the new route may not be any faster due to MORE traffic problems. It's certainly an assist, but definitely not completely reliable yet.
Another question re traffic - if I am on an interestate and there is an incident blocking one lane...will the traffic report indicate either which lane is blocked, or which lane is not blocked?
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here, on all counts ... not to mention that your older re-certified devices would likely come with out-dated maps, with no free-map upgrade path. So, once you factor in the cost of upgrading the map to a more recent one, your bargain is no longer the bargain you thought it was.